Hype is Destroying Music, aka: Black Kids Must Be Stopped!

[Neutral Milk Hotel]

http://idolator.com/tunes/you.ve-got-to-be-kidding/an-idolator-real-talk-special-report-the-black-kids-hype-must-be-stopped-313517.php

This is a very well written article, and the points he brings up are things I've thought for awhile now. It seems to me that the craze for the next big thing has created this kind of law of diminishing returns. I mean, Cold War Kids? Seriously? Thought it might be an interesting discussion topic. Sorry if someone has already posted this.

[hangthedj112]

I agree, fuck black kids. I was one of the earlier bloggers to post about them, and they threw the little blurb I wrote about them off their myspace the second NME & Rolling Stone started hyping them.

[Steven]

where am i?

[bballarl]

Yeah, I don't think black people should make music either.

[thelastgreatman]

I've only listen to either a little, but Cold War Kids actually made me want to listen to their songs at least a second time, whereas Neutral Milk Hotel...

[thelastgreatman]

Jesus Christ. After posting that I just read this article. What the fuck is this guy going on and on about? He's right, I haven't heard of Black Kids. And their album isn't on isohunt so obviously they're not that fucking popular. Calm down for Christ's sake.

[Neutral Milk Hotel]

If you replaced Cold War Kids in that statement with a band that wasn't annoying and uninteresting, it might actually mean something. But you went with the Cold War Kids, so it means nothing.

[mvanwinkle]

I've only listen to either a little, but Cold War Kids actually made me want to listen to their songs at least a second time, whereas Neutral Milk Hotel...

i don't no why every one is so anti cold war kids. and neutral milk hotel what the hell how can you be against them.

[Neutral Milk Hotel]

I haven't heard that many songs, but I just didn't see what was so exciting. I am not particularly anti-them, it is more that I have no stance whatsoever. I just really don't understand how they whipped up such a frenzy among music publications and fans and all that.

[wmgaretjax]

The Cold War Kids are boring, and their lyrics are fucking awful.

Black Kids are OK. Nothing special. Nothing terrible.

For the examples of mediocre indie or dance bands that get caught up in hype, there are cases of good music (Tough Alliance anyone?) in the same boat.


that article is really bloated. dumbass needs to learn how to write concisely.

[mvanwinkle]

i love the cold war kids. i was bummed i could not see them at bfd since i was in HI and then with WS got f'd out of that obviosuly.

[thelastgreatman]

i don't no why every one is so anti cold war kids. and neutral milk hotel what the hell how can you be against them.

They're boring.

Cold War Kids were perfectly inviting. Nothing spectacular, but solid songs. And I happen to like their lyrics, Jared, you asshole.

[kreutz2112]

I am with wmgaretjax on this one. I dont think they are bad, I dont think they are anything extraordinary either.

Now...A Place To Bury Strangers is a different story. I think they are EXTRTEMELY good and deserve all the "hype" they are getting.

[Sushov23]

I like cold war kids, and I look forward to seeing them early in friday at coachella on the main stage.

[All That I Am]

Blogs are destoying music, aka: I know what I like and I don't care if you love me, hate me or masturbate screaming my name. Your opinion doesn't really matter to me.

[matsuolost]

fuck you if you think blogs are killing music
dont read them if you dont want to

[keriann]

Here is the solution:

Stop reading music media. Make friends who like good music. Listen to things that they suggest.

Works for me.

[bballarl]

Keriann, I knew about not reading music media and making friends who like good music before you. I had their first demo tape. ON EIGHT-TRACK.

[PassiveTheory]

*blinks* Well, to be perfectly honest, the first time I heard of Black Kids was the Rolling Stone "hot new music to listen to" list in like... their last issue. This is the second time. I haven't checked them out, but whatever.

The point I'm trying to make here is that Cold War Kids, much like Spoon (and to a degree, Arctic Monkeys) make good indie-pop music that isn't conscious, pretentious, and is enjoyable.

And now me and Randy have something to bond over: Cold War Kids.

[bmack86]

I listen to good music. Listen to me.

And, Black Kids are merely okay at this point, but they have potential. And A Place to Bury Strangers and The Tough Alliance both have more than potential.

[PassiveTheory]

There's alot of hype about these APTBS kids... they have a myspace?

[miscorrections]

Don't ever lump Spoon with Cold War Kids and Arctic Monkeys again. Ever.

[arbouler]

For the examples of mediocre indie or dance bands that get caught up in hype, there are cases of good music (Tough Alliance anyone?) in the same boat.


i randomly downloaded tough alliance the other day, lucky me. i thought it's one of the few albums of the year i truly enjoy. i have a thing for swedes perhaps (except for the hives and shout out louds)

[thelastgreatman]

Arctic Monkeys first album > every band mentioned in this thread

[bballarl]

There's alot of hype about these APTBS kids... they have a myspace?

Every band has a Myspace, they aren't kids, and they're heavy as fuck.

[PassiveTheory]

Don't ever lump Spoon with Cold War Kids and Arctic Monkeys again. Ever.

Why? Spoon is simple pop music, there's nothing overtly intellectual about what they do. Granted, they do use more veiled imagery than either CWK or AM, but they aren't pretentiously artsy or poignant. At least that's my interpretation, and it's not a bad thing at all.

[Neutral Milk Hotel]

Don't ever lump Spoon with Cold War Kids and Arctic Monkeys again. Ever.

Yeah, that just...bleh. Don't fuck with Spoon. I also don't like the concept stated above that in order to be, what, sophisticated, artistically successful, or whatever, you have to be pretentiously artsy. Artsy itself isn't enough, now we have to be pretentious about it.

[wmgaretjax]

Now...A Place To Bury Strangers is a different story. I think they are EXTRTEMELY good and deserve all the "hype" they are getting.

BINGO!

[bballarl]

Arctic Monkeys first album > every band mentioned in this thread

Their first album is quite good. But they didn't deserve the hype explosion based on those demos.

[wmgaretjax]

Arctic Monkeys first album > every band mentioned in this thread

fuck you randy. are you having an off day? you just keep getting shit wrong ;) (but seriously, check out Tough Alliance and A Place to Bury Strangers).

i agree about spoon. don't lump them in with mediocre shit. plus, Spoon has staying power, they've been chugging for quite some time now.

[miscorrections]

Spoon are mature and have proven themselves time and again. CWK and Arctic Monkeys have yet to do that, and I doubt they ever will.

There's a huge difference in quality.

[PassiveTheory]

Mediocre shit? Dude, AM and CWK are good, they're nothing to rant or rave about, but they're not mediocre. AM has damn good musicianship (the breaks and rhythm on "Brianstorm" and "Fluorescent Adolescent" alone prove this) and CWK is simply cool (the riff and vocals on "Tell Me In The Morning" are stellar), hardly mediocre.

EDIT: In the one year between the debut record and Favourite Worst Nightmare, the Monkeys grew leaps and bounds. In fact, I hated their first record, but I like a lot of things about FWN and it shows that they have the potential to be even better. CWK only has one major release, so only time will tell.

[keriann]

i agree about spoon. don't lump them in with mediocre shit. plus, Spoon has staying power, they've been chugging for quite some time now.

Whoa, you like Spoon? That's crazy.

[wmgaretjax]

Another great, way hyped band: Deerhunter.

[wmgaretjax]

Mediocre shit? Dude, AM and CWK are good, they're nothing to rant or rave about, but they're not mediocre. AM has damn good musicianship (the breaks and rhythm on "Brianstorm" and "Fluorescent Adolescent" alone prove this) and CWK is simply cool (the riff and vocals on "Tell Me In The Morning" are stellar), hardly mediocre.

EDIT: In the one year between the debut record and Favourite Worst Nightmare, the Monkeys grew leaps and bounds. In fact, I hated their first record, but I like a lot of things about FWN and it shows that they have the potential to be even better. CWK only has one major release, so only time will tell.

No. It's mediocre, dated, regurgitated crap. AM "damn good musicianship?" Learn to play an instrument.

[wmgaretjax]

Whoa, you like Spoon? That's crazy.

Girls Can Tell is one of my favorite albums. Wasn't too hot on their latest one, but it wasn't bad.

I don't think they are very interesting live though, especially in larger venues. I did seem them put on an amazing show at the Crocodile Cafe here in Seattle a few years back.

[bballarl]

No. It's mediocre, dated, regurgitated crap. AM "damn good musicianship?" Learn to play an instrument.

Like em or not, they are an extremely tight live band. There is something to be said for that.

[bmack86]

They are the epitome of hit or miss live. I've seen them kill, i've seen them flail.

And, I'm hoping Deerhunter don't die because of all this hype.

[bballarl]

They are the epitome of hit or miss live. I've seen them kill, i've seen them flail.

And, I'm hoping Deerhunter don't die because of all this hype.

Spoon or Arctic Monkeys?

[bmack86]

Spoon.

I've only seen Arctic Monkeys once, and they killed.

[wmgaretjax]

Like em or not, they are an extremely tight live band. There is something to be said for that.

Incubus might be an incredibly "tight live band," doesn't change that it is all riff based crap. I saw them play a couple songs at Sasquatch a couple years back, and I don't remember them being especially "tight." Just cocky and boring. Doesn't matter. This is all besides the point of the article.

[keriann]

Girls Can Tell is one of my favorite albums.
Excellent choice.

[bballarl]

Do you play an instrument?

[wmgaretjax]

And, I'm hoping Deerhunter don't die because of all this hype.

After a couple listens through that Atlas Sound record, I'm not worried. Seems like Brandon Cox is what I really care about. He's here for a while for sure.

[PassiveTheory]

No. It's mediocre, dated, regurgitated crap. AM "damn good musicianship?" Learn to play an instrument.

I do play an instrument, fuck face. That's why I said it, in fact, why don't you go learn the fucking bassline to "Fluorescent Adolescent" and then come back and say that shit.

Spoon.

I've only seen Arctic Monkeys once, and they killed.

Agreed. The first time I saw Spoon open for DCfC, they were amazing. The second time, Britt just kneeled down and dicked around with his guitar for like 8 minutes during one song and was completely still and boring during another... They really need a light show and the sun being set to be effective, IMO.

[wmgaretjax]

Do you play an instrument?

I play guitar. But I don't as much as I used to. I've been focusing mostly on my sound synthesis stuff lately, and some of that has been real time shit for my guitar.

[matsuolost]

fuck you randy. are you having an off day? you just keep getting shit wrong ;) (but seriously, check out Tough Alliance and A Place to Bury Strangers).

i agree about spoon. don't lump them in with mediocre shit. plus, Spoon has staying power, they've been chugging for quite some time now.

yeah wtf is with bringing up spoon and neutral milk hotel?
respect, people

[wmgaretjax]

I do play an instrument, fuck face. That's why I said it, in fact, why don't you go learn the fucking bassline to "Fluorescent Adolescent" and then come back and say that shit.

Ok. sorry. learn to play an instrument well then. then start listening to music that is worth your time.


haha. this reminds of the guys in high school that tried to convince me that the guitarist form Incubus was one of the most important musicians alive. that's all I have to say about this subject.

[PassiveTheory]

When the hell has whatever music you find musically interesting EVER fucking translated into musical ability? That's just idiotic short-sightedness.

[bballarl]

I play guitar. But I don't as much as I used to. I've been focusing mostly on my sound synthesis stuff lately, and some of that has been real time shit for my guitar.

Word. All I'm saying is that if you've played with other people, you know it's tough to have an airtight performance/sound. Whether you like the Arctic Monkeys or not, that makes them solid musicians. They aren't breaking new ground or anything, but they have their shit together.

[wmgaretjax]

Word. All I'm saying is that if you've played with other people, you know it's tough to have an airtight performance/sound. Whether you like the Arctic Monkeys or not, that makes them solid musicians. They aren't breaking new ground or anything, but they have their shit together.

maybe they have their shit together. but playing together doesn't guarantee good or interesting music. just because the marching band is on key and together, doesn't make it worth paying for those fucking uniforms.

[bmack86]

I can rarely argue against Jared when it comes to music, since the guy and I share pretty much the same exact taste.

That having been said, Andrew's right. The Monkeys are fun for me, but their live show is damn impressive.

I was impressed when I saw Incubus in 02 also, but that might have something to do with how early I saw that in relation to other shows.

[bballarl]

maybe they have their shit together. but playing together doesn't guarantee good or interesting music. just because the marching band is on key and together, doesn't make it worth paying for those fucking uniforms.

I don't understand where you've gotten the idea that I'm trying to correlate live-tightness with good/interesting music. I'm just making the point they are solid musicians. Whether you like the product or not is your deal.

[wmgaretjax]

I was impressed when I saw Incubus in 02 also, but that might have something to do with how early I saw that in relation to other shows.

Haha. The best irony about this is that when I saw Incubus in 8th grade right after Make Yourself came out, I thought they were one of the best bands alive. And there is something to be said for kids liking your music. That said, there's also something to be said for music evolving, and inaccordance, taste evolving.

I forgot. I saw Arctic Monkeys in Denmark at Roskilde too. I had the same response, granted I saw two songs about a mile away.

[bmack86]

Okay, so I'm on my third listen to the Atlas Sound album.

It's awesome, yes, but I miss the volume and density that was present on the Deerhunter album. This is great, but it's a completely different monster. I love the distortion and madness.

Have you seen Deerhunter live? I think that's the deciding factor. Their live show is insanity personified.

[wmgaretjax]

Have you seen Deerhunter live? I think that's the deciding factor. Their live show is insanity personified.

Yeah, with grizzly bear. it was one of the best live shows I have ever been to. absolutely manic. i can't wait for them to hit the circuit again (maybe fall next year?).

Atlas sound is definitely Cox tampering with his draw to minimalism. But the layers are there, it just feels more restrained. I keep waiting for things to break loose, and they never do. It's a great contrast to Deerhunter.

[miseducation]

Ugh, I can't stand Deerhunter. I've heard you've gotta see it live, but it doesn't do much for me.

As for musicianship, I don't really think it means much here. I don't see Yngwie or Dream Theater at the top of anyone's Coachella wish lists and they might be as technical as you can get.

It's not about the skill, not the size, nor the knowledge of the musician - it's about the music, baby. The best art does not require the most skill to create.

Classic stoner argument here, guys. I thought we'd have this settled.

Arctic Monkeys are fantastic, but I don't give a rat's ass how difficult their basslines are to pull off.

[matsuolost]

yeah i mean look at the beatles

[wmgaretjax]

Ugh, I can't stand Deerhunter. I've heard you've gotta see it live, but it doesn't do much for me.

I don't know. Seeing it live might make it click a little better, but they are what they are.

In some senses I could see it turning someone off even more. I feel that way about Animal Collective (although they are a different beast in many ways), if you don't like the album, the live show is just going to frustrate you that much more.

also, my "learn to play an instrument" comment wasn't quite taken the way I'd hoped. My point wasn't really about the technical skill of the musicians, rather the type of music they play. Learning to play guitar was what turned me off so much of the music I liked. It was how I learned how boring and repetitive most of the stuff I listened to really was (although I guess I can understand how it could have the opposite effect). My comment wasn't a cry for Dreamtheater, but a cry for people who care more about pushing boundaries and pushing music forward. People who aren't afraid to take chances. Most music out there nowadays doesn't take any chances, and it's fucking depressing.

[mvanwinkle]

arctic monkeys tear it up live. they are one of the best rock bands of the time. if you have only seen them at coachella. then do not say anything. I saw them at the warfield. and they were incredible.
arcitc monkeys> cwk>spoon
side note-spoon blows live.

[PassiveTheory]

Ugh, I can't stand Deerhunter. I've heard you've gotta see it live, but it doesn't do much for me.

As for musicianship, I don't really think it means much here. I don't see Yngwie or Dream Theater at the top of anyone's Coachella wish lists and they might be as technical as you can get.

It's not about the skill, not the size, nor the knowledge of the musician - it's about the music, baby. The best art does not require the most skill to create.

Classic stoner argument here, guys. I thought we'd have this settled.

Arctic Monkeys are fantastic, but I don't give a rat's ass how difficult their basslines are to pull off.

Dude, the argument was that AM and CWK did not show any signs whatsoever of being able to mature into a thoughtful, innovative group, and I was debunking that myth, that's all.

[wmgaretjax]

I was debunking that myth, that's all.

how? by talking about how awesome their riffs are? Are riffs the marker for innovative, mature bands?

besides. this (http://www.greendaily.com/2007/12/11/driveways-become-grassways/) is more important than the arctic monkeys.

[menikmati]

I could care less about how difficult or how easy a bands music is to play. The only thing that matters is if I enjoy the music or not. That simple. I don't care anything about complexity of riffs, or stage presence, or light shows, or any of that crap.

[roberto73]

I wasn't aware that in order to enter this thread I'd have to disappear up my own asshole in an attempt to prove how indie I am. This thread makes me hate music.

[bballarl]

Elitist.

[Sushov23]

PEOPLE, this one is reaching, BULLSHIT

[full on idle]

The Cold War Kids are boring, and their lyrics are fucking awful.

Black Kids are OK. Nothing special. Nothing terrible.

For the examples of mediocre indie or dance bands that get caught up in hype, there are cases of good music (Tough Alliance anyone?) in the same boat.


that article is really bloated. dumbass needs to learn how to write concisely.

read John Darnielle's response-to

http://www.lastplanetojakarta.com/2007/10/double_take.html

The ideal would be criticism that aspired neither to praise nor to damn, but to understand and elucidate; the ideal would involve not wanting to help or hinder the object of one's scrutiny, but to fairly describe it. That would be real progress toward something rigorous and difficult and exciting, and...well: does that sound like something our culture, macro or micro, is really equipped to do at this point in our history?

[gmoneyak]

I could care less about how difficult or how easy a bands music is to play. The only thing that matters is if I enjoy the music or not. That simple. I don't care anything about complexity of riffs, or stage presence, or light shows, or any of that crap.

I'm with you there..

[miscorrections]

John Darnielle is an exemplary human being.

[kreutz2112]

I listen to bands that don't even exist yet.

[miseducation]

To respond to the original title: Black Kids made it nowhere on my rotation, I couldn't keep listening after 3 go-arounds. They aren't bad, but they certainly aren't very good.

And I don't quite think hype destroys music for me, it might just delay it. I've been dismissing The National and especially Boxer as boring, overhyped, not for me stuff since I heard about them.

I'd heard a single or two and just assumed it to be the kind of hyped slow crap that blogforks shove down my throat all the time (see Marissa Nadler, Bon Iver).

It's been two days since I bothered to grab it and I'm stunned. This album single-handedly takes up the gap that Wilco and Interpol created with their shite albums. Hype is a roadblock, if the music is truly timeless and great - it'll shine through.

[kreutz2112]

To respond to the original title: Black Kids made it nowhere on my rotation, I couldn't keep listening after 3 go-arounds. They aren't bad, but they certainly aren't very good.

And I don't quite think hype destroys music for me, it might just delay it. I've been dismissing The National and especially Boxer as boring, overhyped, not for me stuff since I heard about them.

I'd heard a single or two and just assumed it to be the kind of hyped slow crap that blogforks shove down my throat all the time (see Marissa Nadler, Bon Iver).

It's been two days since I bothered to grab it and I'm stunned. This album single-handedly takes up the gap that Wilco and Interpol created with their shite albums. Hype is a roadblock, if the music is truly timeless and great - it'll shine through.

I thought your post before this was shit, but this actually makes sense to me. It's what happened with me and Arcade Fire.

[wmgaretjax]

read John Darnielle's response-to

http://www.lastplanetojakarta.com/2007/10/double_take.html

that's a great quote. and an awesome response.

[Abe Lincoln]

I'm starting a band called Cold Black Kids.

[mvanwinkle]

i thought you were in that band I freed the black kids.

[Abe Lincoln]

No that was I love the Black Kids,oh so much more than the white kids.It was a super group with me,Gordon Gano,and Michael Jackson...

[mvanwinkle]

o thats right I always get you two mixed up.

[thelastgreatman]

fuck you randy. are you having an off day? you just keep getting shit wrong ;) (but seriously, check out Tough Alliance and A Place to Bury Strangers).

I am never wrong, sir. Maybe I'll check those out. I tried listening to NMH and Spoon's albums and they just didn't grab me. I suppose it might require further exploratory listenings but frankly if the music is really good it shouldn't require that at all.

People that argue that music isn't good because it's simple or easy to play are douchebags. The Beatles couldn't play their instruments worth half a shit, that doesn't mean they didn't make write/make good music. There's not a single Beatles riff that could reasonably be considered difficult to play, does that mean that Julia isn't beautiful?

Arctic Monkeys were awesome at Coachella by the way, I wish I had gone to the Warfield show though. And I don't think Arctic Monkeys got a hype explosion over here just because of their demo, they got it because they became like the most popular band in London overnight. And a lot of their success in Britain can be attributed to quality live performances. Listen to their live album from The Astoria--going to see one of their shows over their sounds amazing, not in any small part because literally everyone in attendance belts out every song along with the singer. Sounds like a good time.

[thelastgreatman]

Also, these black kids jokes are reminding of this time that I was driving with some friends through Asbury Park, a predominantly black ghetto back in Jersey, and for whatever reason decided it would be funny to yell "Freeze black kids!" out the window periodically. That's a better band name.

[clarky123]

Now "That" would have been an excellent time for your car to break down!

[thelastgreatman]

Is not knowing how to use quotation marks a British defect? Didn't you people supposedly INVENT the language?

[clarky123]

Yes, we did. "That's" why we are allowed to use it as we please.
Also, learn how to read a map before you start handing grammar lessons out!
Next question RSW.

[thelastgreatman]

Did you know that maps are cartography, not grammar? =)

[summerkid]

I don't buy into the hype that hype is destroying music.

[clarky123]

Yes, that's why I used the word "before". Can I dumb it down any further for you?

[thelastgreatman]

... so you'd like me to anticipate when you're about to say something stupid and correct you ahead of time. Well, it's unorthodox, but okay.




QUICK, SHUT THE FUCK UP.

[J~$$$]

Im currently writing a blog about homeless clarinet street performers. If you fall into this category or have friends or family that are homeless clarinet street performers please contact me.

Having a firm grasp of notes used in Radiohead songs is a plus.
Also +5 years exp with notepad.
Must have atleast one confirmed mental illness.

[joppy-slow]

Arctic Monkeys were awesome at Coachella by the way, I wish I had gone to the Warfield show though. And I don't think Arctic Monkeys got a hype explosion over here just because of their demo, they got it because they became like the most popular band in London overnight. And a lot of their success in Britain can be attributed to quality live performances. Listen to their live album from The Astoria--going to see one of their shows over their sounds amazing, not in any small part because literally everyone in attendance belts out every song along with the singer. Sounds like a good time.

I had to eat my words after I saw the Arctic Monkeys at Coachella. They played tight and sounded damn good.. fast and furious like that movie. Seeing them live, versus hearing songs off their album.. completely different.. i'm sorry arctic monkey's i'm an ass hat..

[bballarl]

They owned at Coachella.

[mvanwinkle]

They owned at Coachella.

i thought they owned at coachella too. they are so much better at a smaller venue though.

[Sushov23]

THAT FACT THAT YOU ARE ALL ARGUING OVER SOMETHING STUPID, MAKES YOU ALL VERY SMART.