I just discovered something that most people don't allow you to offend or demean.

[miseducation]

And that is the profession of teaching.

Last night, among close friends - I was systematically thrown to the wolves for suggesting that teaching and teachers specifically are not always doing something noble. I'm not suggesting there aren't many, many selfless teachers who dedicate themselves to the craft and preparing students for life.

What I am suggesting is that there are many for whom teaching is kind of a default pick. The pay isn't great but it requires relatively little schooling from pretty much anywhere, there's always demand for you and you can get a job pretty much anywhere you live. There's a ton of vacation time and it's quite difficult for a lazy teacher to get fired if they never really do anything wrong.

The point where I attracted the most boos and hisses was where I suggested that some people who go into to teaching are unambitious for the reasons I pointed out. I'm not saying that teachers are unambitious (shit, look at Robert Pollard) but that many unambitious people go into teaching.

We've all had terrible teachers who truly don't care for their students and don't care to do anything but make students copy down vocabulary words. Are teachers who put forth the least amount of effort still noble? Does the potential power and responsibility of the profession automatically make anything you do as a part of your job noble?

I really hit a nerve with a lot people last night and I guess I wanted to see what everybody thought here. I know some of you are teachers so I'd like to know what you think.

[Tylerdurden31]

my parents are teachers, a few friends are teachers...i get what you're saying though. One of my friends, who would make a terrible teacher, was talking about becoming one. His main reason...summer vacation. I told him "if that's why you wanna be a teacher, just don't"

[Courtney]

There are some really fantastically smart, motivated, educated people out there who choose to be teachers because they believe in the profession's importance. There are also a hell of a lot of relatively mediocre, unmotivated, unhappy people who choose to be teachers because it's a somewhat easy job to get with relatively few qualifications.

It's a problem, but as a society if we want it to change, we're going to have to start valuing education more (in an economic sense) so the incentive is there for a more competitive employment pool.

[TomAz]

be careful whose ox you gore. it might be someone's sacred cow.

[Mr.Nipples]

be careful whose ox you gore. it might be someone's sacred cow.

bullshit...

[algunz]

Ok, where do I start?

Unfortunately, in many regards, you are absolutely correct, mis. There are teachers who are not good at their job. They spend their days just filling time, waiting for their next vacation. For each one of those types of teachers there are 100 that are there because they put their heart and soul into their job. They truly care for their students and would do almost anything to ensure that these kids gain the skills and knowledge to succeed. These teachers are noble and deserve all the respect and admiration that they rarely get from others - students, parents, administrators, society. It is frustrating to hear that this is even a discussion, that people feel the need to chat about how noble or not noble teachers should be considered. Why do non-teachers feel compelled to question the righteousness of educators?

Teaching is not an easy job, and most of the people that go into it for the wrong reasons don't last.

[thelastgreatman]

Why do teachers feel they're entitled to go unquestioned?

[algunz]

Why do teachers feel they're entitled to go unquestioned?

It's not about going unquestioned, it's that they seem to be questioned far more than others. Many of you believe that teachers should live to some sort of higher moral value system than others. I don't completely understand why?

[marooko]

TO THE WOLVES!!!!


kidding. i totally hear what you're saying. some teahers are awesome. some should eat a bullet for failing to teach.

[marooko]

It's not about going unquestioned, it's that they seem to be questioned far more than others. Many of you believe that teachers should live to some sort of higher moral value system than others. I don't completely understand why?

probably because, in a sense, they have a hand in the future of the country and mankind.

[full on idle]

I just spent the holiday with one of my best friends in the world who's a NYC public school teacher in Brooklyn. She has to break up knife fights amongst 11 and 12 year olds. She said most the tenured teachers she works with are so burned out that they don't really care anymore. It's a big struggle for her.

[J~$$$]

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/Spinningfox/4Chan/1156001892489.jpg

[algunz]

probably because, in a sense, they have a hand in the future of the country and mankind.

so does everyone

[kreutz2112]

There are teachers who are not good at their job. They spend their days just filling time, waiting for their next vacation. For each one of those types of teachers there are 100 that are there because they put their heart and soul into their job.

I doubt the ratio is 1:100

[vinylmartyr]

http://www.engrish.com/image/engrish/hey-ho-xmas-time.jpg

[miseducation]

so does everyone

That's a wonderful counter-argument. And understand that I think your defense is easily the most sober, level-headed one I've encountered about this thus far.

However, I guess I feel compelled to question their righteousness because it smacked me in the face during the aforementioned discussion. I do believe I should be allowed to question why someone talented at something that requires a risky amount of sacrifice to be successful at would choose to teach instead without being lambasted.

I think I should be allowed to question the motivations, rewards and incentives of any profession without regard for it's inherent nobility.

I don't want teachers to be held to higher standard - I just want to be able to say "that guy became a teacher because it was easy for him to get that job" if I believe it to be true without being called a dick.

[kreutz2112]

this all sounds too familiar.

[roberto73]

If I feel like I can muster a level-headed response to this at some point in the next day or two, I will. I taught for over ten years and now I'm involved first-hand in teacher training, so I'm a little closer to it than most.

I will say this, though: the student teachers I'm working with now are among some of the smartest, most passionate, most dedicated people I've ever encountered. They genuinely want education to mean something, and the program they're currently immersed in is tough. The trick, of course, is in raising the standard of the training so it's harder for the mediocre ones to slip through the cracks. More to come ...

[JustSteve]

those who can, do. those who can't, teach. isn't that how the old saying goes?

[marooko]

so does everyone

i wish that were really the case. theoretically, yes. actually, no.

i see what you're saying, but try to tell someone elses kid they're doing wrong. im sure you know how that ususally goes. it sucks.

[RageAgainstRob]

I doubt the ratio is 1:100

i had at least 15 teachers in my high school who were totaly crap and clearly hated kids.

[Courtney]

I'd imagine that the ratio of good to bad is going to vary pretty significantly depending on what school you're talking about. Not just because some schools will attract good teachers, but also because some schools will be able to support and give their teachers the resources to excel while others will not.

But I don't think it's as productive to bicker about percentages as it is to try to think of proactive ways to maximize the educational experience of the average student. In my opinion, implementing tougher training and requirements for teachers while helpful isn't the full solution because it will result in a deficit of teachers in the educational system. There needs to be a better structure in place for attracting bright, promising teachers to the field and also a better structure of institutional support and benefits to keep them in the field.

[bmack86]

My mom was a psychologist, but quit because she wanted to teach. All the people who teach at her school do it because they love the idea of teaching. I had a few high school teachers who didn't want to be there, but by and large, I've dealt with good to great teachers.

[thelastgreatman]

It's not about going unquestioned, it's that they seem to be questioned far more than others. Many of you believe that teachers should live to some sort of higher moral value system than others. I don't completely understand why?

I'm going to try to avoid engaging in any of the stuff about teachers that I've (infamously) argued about on the board before, but this interests me. Really? You think that teachers receive more scrutiny than usual? Of course that might have something to do with your being a teacher, but still--are you really going to tell me that teachers are frequently cast in a critical light? Where exactly other than this board? Movies about high school stoners, maybe. But for every one of those there's three Lean On Me's, Stand And Deliver's, Coach Carter's, et cetera, et cetera...

Pop culture is an accurate reflection of culture most of the time is the only reason I bring it up. Obviously your opinion is probably biased and we all know mine is. But can you really tell me that teachers are subject to a higher degree of scrutiny than they are given routine praise?

[Somewhat Damaged]

A friend of mine entered a program to become a teacher earlier this year and the only thing to dim his enthusiasm was the realization that not everybody in his program was entering it because they felt they could do some good but because it was the safe, easy career choice for them to make. I feel that teachers are egregiously underpaid by and large (when I worked at a payday loan store, I became very familiar with the salaries of several teachers with varying years of experience -- even the tellers who started at $9.00/hour at my store were making about as much money as many of the teachers coming in to use our services) but also acknowledge that just because someone's a teacher doesn't mean they should be regarded as a saint.

Not to change the subject but I think this also applies to soldiers in our military. Yeah, it sucks when they get killed in battle, but not all of them enlisted due to some noble desire to serve their country. There were more than a couple from my high school who joined because they had nothing better to do with their lives. In my current job, I work with a lot of WWII and Vietnam veterans and I respect them because they conduct themselves in a manner that warrants respect. But one of my college roommates was a Marine and was the biggest prick on the planet, always acting like the world owed him a favor 'cause he was a fucking MARINE as if that's all it took to earn respect. He wasn't the only military person I've encountered who was like that, and so it's a case-by-case basis, same as it is with teachers. Some are noble and deserve respect, others aren't and don't.

[algunz]

But can you really tell me that teachers are subject to a higher degree of scrutiny than they are given routine praise?

My response was more related to the boards, because I have received so much scrutiny based solely on the fact that I am a teacher.

And mis, you have every right to question whomever and whatever you like - that is your privilege - as it is for people to call you an asshole in response.

[algunz]

I don't completely understand why?

Also, why has nobody questioned my unnecessary question mark?

[Yablonowitz]

I'm not really following this thread but anyone who thinks that teaching is considered an a priori virtuous position must not have kids in the school system and/or attend PTA/school board meetings.