Roger Waters or David Gilmore?

[DeadSkin]

Who would you of rather seen take stage on Sunday

[MassiveChemicalPunk]

Who would you of rather seen take stage on Sunday

both

[M Sparks]

An Intimate Evening with Nick Mason

[microcuts]

It's Gilmour.

[Sonicifyouwantit]

Ive seen Roger Waters before and its amazing, so before you try to knock it, try it

[faxman75]

Waters. I've seen both and as far as shows go I perfer waters. If I strictly wanted guitar, then I would go for Gilmour.

They are both fantastic and amazing though.

[chucky canuck]

Neither is a headliner on their own. Waters wrote most of the songs and came up with the big concepts from 1970 onward, but Gilmour's guitar is integral to the band's sound. Think of Comfortably Numb, Another Brick In The Wall, and especially Shine On.... Gilmour's guitar work makes the songs.

That's the problem with booking oldies acts...some or most of the band has gone, and you're seeing one person who may or may not have been the drivign force behind the band's material

[shoegazer76]

If I'm gonna hear Darkside live its Gilmour. If its The Wall then Waters. Plain & fuckin simple there is no contest.

[MonsoonSeason]

I voted for bob because this thread title is misleading

[thebattleofphoenix]

The WHOLE band (minus Syd of course...)

[sweet artie]

I saw "Pink Floyd" (sorry but they aren't Pink Floyd w/ out Roger Waters) during the "Momentary Lapse of Reason" tour in '87... it was a pretty awesome show and they sounded great but, Roger Waters @ the Hollywood Bowl last year was very intense and, completely MIND BLOWING! Seeing Mr. Waters and his band do "Dark Side of the Moon" (+ songs from "The Wall" and other albums)... in the desert... @ Coachella... is going to be an other worldly experience!
You will not be disappointed my friends.

[Death]

If I'm gonna hear Darkside live its Gilmour. If its The Wall then Waters. Plain & fuckin simple there is no contest.

Exactly right.

[familyguy420]

I saw "Pink Floyd" (sorry but they aren't Pink Floyd w/ out Roger Waters) during the "Momentary Lapse of Reason" tour in '87... it was a pretty awesome show and they sounded great but, Roger Waters @ the Hollywood Bowl last year was very intense and, completely MIND BLOWING! Seeing Mr. Waters and his band do "Dark Side of the Moon" (+ songs from "The Wall" and other albums)... in the desert... @ Coachella... is going to be an other worldly experience!
You will not be disappointed my friends.

I saw roger 3 times at the Hollywood bowl two times 2006 and once in 2007 it has to be the best show iv ever been too.
Coachella 04,05,06

[OG_GinNjuice]

Roger Waters is a bad ass. I want to see a giant pig floating in the desert sky. THAT SHITS GONNA BE RAD!!!

[brando4n82]

Trust me, Rogers puts on a great show of Dark Side, seen it twice in the last two years at Hollywood Bowl. I can't decide if i want to see it again, or experience something else, but then again, how many times do you get to see Dark Side performed by a member of Floyd

[sweet artie]

Roger Waters is a bad ass. I want to see a giant pig floating in the desert sky. THAT SHITS GONNA BE RAD!!!

And don't forget the lazers and the huge Dark Side pyramid that will be hanging over the stage near the end.... fucking AWESOME!
Not only that but, the sound is in stero!
It's gonna be sick!

[DHARMA2112]

You guys do know that Roger Waters cant sing anymore right? He was caught practically lyp-syncing at his Rio shows. Well, it wasn't really lyp-sync. He was singing to a back track, but my god..he sounded SO awful.

Everytime someone tried to post the video on youtube, they have it taken down.

At least Gilmour can still play/sing live. I don't understand why Roger gets so much support on this board.

[g0k1ngsg0]

this choice is more than david gilmour vs roger waters. I voted roger waters even though I actually prefer david gilmour - only becuase it's DSOTM in it's entirety with "full throttle on the production" so I think it will be a special show.

at least I hope so.

[alpharuin]

If I'm gonna hear Darkside live its Gilmour. If its The Wall then Waters. Plain & fuckin simple there is no contest.

QFT.

[DHARMA2112]

Also, compare side by side videos with Waters vs Gilmour. Almost every time, Gimlour does the better version live.

Wish You Were Here - enuff said.

[sweet artie]

I'm sorry Dharma but, you are COMPLETELY off your rocker!
I don't care what you saw on You Tube, I was sitiing 2nd row @ the Roger Waters DSOTM show @ the Hollywood Bowl show last Summer... there was absolutely no underlying vocal track or any lipsyncing going on there!
It was LIVE my friend... Roger Waters can absolutely still sing and, he has a more intense and passionate vocal style than Gilmour or Syd Barrett!

[waxybk]

If I'm gonna hear Darkside live its Gilmour. If its The Wall then Waters. Plain & fuckin simple there is no contest.

yes!

[DHARMA2112]

I'm sorry Dharma but, you are COMPLETELY off your rocker!
I don't care what you saw on You Tube, I was sitiing 2nd row @ the Roger Waters DSOTM show @ the Hollywood Bowl show last Summer... there was absolutely no underlying vocal track or any lipsyncing going on there!
It was LIVE my friend... Roger Waters can absolutely still sing and, he has a more intense and passionate vocal style than Gilmour or Syd Barrett!

I went to the same show, and thought he was shite!

Sorry, but Gilmoure is much better live. I've hard both Gilmoure and Waters perform Darkside in it's entirety (separate of course) - and hands down Gilmoure always performs it better.

Fucking shame they settled for less.

[DHARMA2112]

Also, while Youtube videos might not always be the best source for musical clarity, it was quite obvious Waters had a shit voice when you heard his real vox under the backup track.

Maybe YOU enjoy hearing an artist faking like he can sing by covering it up with a back up track, but I for one would rather see an artist who can actually perform.

[instinct]

And don't forget the lazers and the huge Dark Side pyramid that will be hanging over the stage near the end.... fucking AWESOME!
Not only that but, the sound is in stero!
It's gonna be sick!



errr... lasers* it's a pet peave of mine.. Laser is an acronym...

[faxman75]

The debate continues almost 40 years later. LOL

[carokube]

errr... lasers* it's a pet peave of mine.. Laser is an acronym...

err... peeve* sorry, it's a pet peeve of mine. :D

[DHARMA2112]

The debate continues almost 40 years later. LOL

Honestly, the debate should never have existed. While Waters was ONCE talented, most of his talent laid in his writing and singing abilities.

However, Gilmour was amazing at guitar, and better vocally.

SO years later, hands down Gilmour is the better performer. Not only can he sing better then Waters now, he actually plays a mean guitar. Waters just has sub-par vocals, and doesn't really play much at all with the instruments.

Worst crime of all, Waters always has Female vocals sing parts he can't do, and it always sounds out of place.

[interpolado]

between your dog or cat, which you love more?

some questions must never be answered...

waters or gilmoure...? maybe both on the same stage... with nick and wright..

[devon]

If I'm gonna hear Darkside live its Gilmour. If its The Wall then Waters. Plain & fuckin simple there is no contest.

Funny, I would have said the exact opposite. Gilmour sings a lot of my favorite songs on the wall I guess that's why..

Keep in mind, Tollet said in the press conference that after DSoTM Waters will be doing a lot of the tracks from The Wall.

I think it'll be amazing. Yes, a lot of us have seen Rogers play our local stadium but now we get to see him in the f*in desert. It'll sound epic.

[dv37201]

If I'm gonna hear Darkside live its Gilmour. If its The Wall then Waters. Plain & fuckin simple there is no contest.

Spot on. That's pretty much how they were recorded, and Gilmour still sounds pretty damn good doing Dark Side, Water's voice has degraded too much to do the DSOTM songs justice.

[woogie846]

Roger Waters easily.

[imamoonmonster]

I saw "Pink Floyd" (sorry but they aren't Pink Floyd w/ out Roger Waters) during the "Momentary Lapse of Reason" tour in '87... it was a pretty awesome show and they sounded great but, Roger Waters @ the Hollywood Bowl last year was very intense and, completely MIND BLOWING! Seeing Mr. Waters and his band do "Dark Side of the Moon" (+ songs from "The Wall" and other albums)... in the desert... @ Coachella... is going to be an other worldly experience!
You will not be disappointed my friends.



i cannot see how it would be anything but! especially ending the festival... im excited!

[bohrdoms]

Both are leagues above most of the others picking up a pen or guitar around now. Division Bell tour and DSOTM at the Bowl in '06 are two of the best shows of my life.
- but most of us have already seen Waters, Gilmour would be something different.
And yes- Waters' voice is shot, uses heavy back up tape, this is fact not opinion. Gilmour's guitar playing is still amazing, so Gilmour brings more personal talent to the stage, and is more appropriate for DSOTM. The only thing I can say for Waters is he probably has a lot more $ to throw at the production because he for some reason has always been the fan favorite and sell more tickets.

[Lt. Dangel]

Will this guy be with Waters at Coachella? This guys voice is amazing. Actually better IMO than Gilmours (guitar is a whole other thing, ya ya ya).

Also, youve got to respect the lyrics and concepts behind Pink Floyd albums. Waters is the man, the brains, the creative genius if you will of the whole Floyd vibe right? Props should be given to him for that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=invo5D6SuBQ&feature=related

[coldstart]

Richard D. James.

[DHARMA2112]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wtiNzci1Wc&feature=related

Gilmour sounds SO much better vocally at the live 8 performances.

Alright: I've given my opinion enough times. I hope everyone enjoys Waters in the desert. I personally hope he pulls it off.

[Lt. Dangel]

I just learned his name is Doyle Branhall II. I hope hes with Waters.

[DHARMA2112]

I think the guy still tours with Waters. I have his "In the Flesh Live DVD" and that guys plays with him on that tour. He seems to be a regular.

[bartelby]

Gilmore at the Filmour? (sorry, couldn't resist)

in my opinion, i'd rather see Gilmour but that's nothing against Waters...basically for me, Gilmour's voice is the quintessential Floyd sound and he puts the icing on the cake...Waters, on the other hand, brings the production which, I'm told by many of my friends, will all blow our minds on Sunday night...

[joppy-slow]

Honestly, the debate should never have existed. While Waters was ONCE talented, most of his talent laid in his writing and singing abilities.

However, Gilmour was amazing at guitar, and better vocally.

SO years later, hands down Gilmour is the better performer. Not only can he sing better then Waters now, he actually plays a mean guitar. Waters just has sub-par vocals, and doesn't really play much at all with the instruments.

Worst crime of all, Waters always has Female vocals sing parts he can't do, and it always sounds out of place.

Easily, David Gilmour is better than Roger Waters right now.. 'The Division Bell' does nothing for me, but 'Momentary Lapse of Reason' I still play all the time.... Both of their individual work bores me.. although Roger does take the cake for Radio Chaos, Pro's and Con's.. now his newer stuff blows chunks..

It's too bad these 2 just can't get along and put their differences aside.. Have you ever noticed how similar their voices are?
My ultimate wish in life would be David and Roger playing 'Wish You Were Here'.. David playing the acoustic intro and Roger singing away..

[DHARMA2112]

We just have different tastes in music is all. I for one LOVED the Division Bell, but thought Momentary was awful. But maybe I need t give that one a spin again. I used to dislike the Division Bell as well, but it's really grown on me over the years.

[thelastgreatman]

There's a lot more to a proper Floyd derivative show than just whether or not the name on the ticket is playing lead guitar or whether he's having voice problems in his old age. Waters is responsible for the concepts of their brilliant concerts. Sorry that he only wrote the fucking music and is responsible for generating all that fantastic noise and spectacle. You're right, let's get the frontman instead, so we can have a much worse light show but get better guitar solos.

[digitalface]

If I'm gonna hear Darkside live its Gilmour. If its The Wall then Waters. Plain & fuckin simple there is no contest.

Yeah, think I'm gonna hafta line up to to say ABSOFUCKIN'LUTELY.

[chucky canuck]

There's a lot more to a proper Floyd derivative show than just whether or not the name on the ticket is playing lead guitar or whether he's having voice problems in his old age. Waters is responsible for the concepts of their brilliant concerts. Sorry that he only wrote the fucking music and is responsible for generating all that fantastic noise and spectacle. You're right, let's get the frontman instead, so we can have a much worse light show but get better guitar solos.

wow...you display a lot of ignorance. It was Waters who was the frontman. As for the "fantastic noise", that would be Gilmour (and Wright) mostly.

[thelastgreatman]

Waters was the frontman? By what criteria? If you mean he was the brains behind the operation, yes. But Gilmour was lead vocals and lead guitar on most things until The Wall. That's frontman to me.

[greghead]

This all depends on what part of the sound matters to you; would you rather have the voice or guitar? I myself can't decide totally, but I'll take whatever is offered, which in this case is Waters. All you sniveling indie kids listen up: stop acting cool and artsy and stupid, and check out Roger Waters, he will blow your mind.

[greghead]

Waters is the front man, just by actions and attitude. And the fact that he sings on the majority of the songs. Compare recordings from Pink Floyd with Waters and without him, and you will notice the vocals (now handled exclusively by Gilmour) do not sound even remotely similar. Except on "Wish You Were Here", which Gilmour sang in the studio

[psycobetabuckdown]

This all depends on what part of the sound matters to you; would you rather have the voice or guitar? I myself can't decide totally, but I'll take whatever is offered, which in this case is Waters. All you sniveling indie kids listen up: stop acting cool and artsy and stupid, and check out Roger Waters, he will blow your mind.

Haha nice low blow. B+.

I agree sort of, but isn't David Gilmour better at both vocals and guitar at least today? I just watched two versions of Comfortably Numb, and Gilmour seems to take it. I'll just point out, though, that I am psyched to see Dark Side of the Moon live by a member of Pink Floyd, and I'm not gonna nitpick like your sniveling indie kids.

Coachella! I'm excited, you're excited, we're all excited!

[JSam67]

Never seen Waters, Gilmour, or Floyd in any capacity. And I love Pink Floyd. And I know this will be an awesome show. But I'm having trouble getting excited for this. Rare acts are what I want to see, not someone who's been touring with this format for a couple years. I said this a couple days ago, and I'll say it again: If you want to see Roger Waters, you already have.

But I would have been sooo much more excited for Gilmour. Waters may have been the brains behind Floyd years ago, but now that they're over 60 years old, Gilmour is the one who seems to still bring it because he's still playing/singing all the stuff he did 35 years ago. Waters seems to just kinda blend in with the production. All I'm judging on is vidoes, of course, and I don't doubt that this show will be glorious, but I just think Gilmour would have been loads better.

[trentmorrison]

obviously everyone that voted for Roger Waters has not watched the horrible dvd "In the Flesh"

Roger cannot sing anymore, he ruins Wish you were here, and he gets other people to sing MONEY.

now watch PULSE and the david gilmore dvds. he can still sing and plays the guitar solos brilliantly.

all roger does is play bass, and you want to hear some douche bag play the guitar solo without any soul? or would you rather hear the original guitarist?

obviously people who vote for Roger is not a Floyd fan, and do not really know the music that well.

[trentmorrison]

Exhibit A: Roger Waters: http://youtube.com/watch?v=HMD52qH1uCA @1.23

Exhibit B: David Gilmore: http://youtube.com/watch?v=tkifw0MEj10 @2.37

unless your Helen Keller, you can put this debate to rest.

[UK_Tom]

Gilmore Gilmore Gilmore,

I've got free tickets for this year (will call), but am seriously thinking twice about coming over from the UK on this one. If it was david gilmore, it would have swung it for me, Waters will be at glasto / isle of wight or some other uk festival I can see him at. *yawn*

Now lets all stop our bitching, there both fantastic musicians, and the floyd wouldnt have happened without either of 'em.

Play nice kids

[fikus222]

Considering that the only way to hear Echoes is through Gilmour, than the choice is obvious. By the by, the Wall is overrated.

[UK_Tom]

By the by, the Wall is overrated.

agreed.

[psycobetabuckdown]

obviously everyone that voted for Roger Waters has not watched the horrible dvd "In the Flesh"

Roger cannot sing anymore, he ruins Wish you were here, and he gets other people to sing MONEY.

now watch PULSE and the david gilmore dvds. he can still sing and plays the guitar solos brilliantly.

all roger does is play bass, and you want to hear some douche bag play the guitar solo without any soul? or would you rather hear the original guitarist?

obviously people who vote for Roger is not a Floyd fan, and do not really know the music that well.

You're not a Floyd fan because you spell his last name Gilmore. Obviously. You must not know music that well.

[Lt. Dangel]

So can somebody explain to me how this whole feud between Waters and Gilmour began?...

When and why did they decide not to tour together anymore?

[faxman75]

google has your answers and it's a lot quicker

[Lt. Dangel]

oh really? ok thanks!

dik

[Lt. Dangel]

http://www.pink-floyd.org/artint/rs1187.htm

[chucky canuck]

Waters was the frontman? By what criteria? If you mean he was the brains behind the operation, yes. But Gilmour was lead vocals and lead guitar on most things until The Wall. That's frontman to me.

wrong. Waters was singing most songs by Dark Side. He was the frontman. Gilmour even complained (circa Animals) that most groups had a very strong frontman, while Pink Floyd had a scowling bassist.

[thelastgreatman]

wrong. Waters was singing most songs by Dark Side. He was the frontman. Gilmour even complained (circa Animals) that most groups had a very strong frontman, while Pink Floyd had a scowling bassist.

Dude, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Check the credits.

Speak to Me" - instrumental
"Breathe" - David Gilmour
"On the Run" - instrumental
"Time" - David Gilmour (verse)
Rick Wright (chorus)
"The Great Gig in the Sky" - Clare Torry
"Money" - David Gilmour
"Us and Them" - David Gilmour
Rick Wright (harmony vocal)
"Any Colour You Like" - instrumental
"Brain Damage" - Roger Waters
David Gilmour (harmony vocal)
"Eclipse" -Roger Waters
Rick Wright (harmony vocal)
David Gilmour (harmony vocal)

Waters had lead vocal on two songs. That's all.

[Blintz]

Yeah, just to step into this debate, I think "chuckycanuck" and "thelastgreatman" are either wrong or have missed the point. While Gilmour had more vocals up through "Wish You Were Here", Waters basically had creative control starting with that album, and wrote the majority of the band's songs. So, even though Gilmour has a better singing voice (as Waters admitted at the time), I think it's fair that Waters is touring on his own.

[thelastgreatman]

I don't see how that makes me wrong. In fact you're kinda exactly agreeing with what I said if you read back further.

[brando4n82]

Yeah, just to step into this debate, I think "chuckycanuck" and "thelastgreatman" are either wrong or have missed the point. While Gilmour had more vocals up through "Wish You Were Here", Waters basically had creative control starting with that album, and wrote the majority of the band's songs. So, even though Gilmour has a better singing voice (as Waters admitted at the time), I think it's fair that Waters is touring on his own.


Gilmour has better volcals? is that your arguement? Are you forgetting that hes the fucking guitarest and sound of Floyd?!?

[brando4n82]

wrong. Waters was singing most songs by Dark Side. He was the frontman. Gilmour even complained (circa Animals) that most groups had a very strong frontman, while Pink Floyd had a scowling bassist.

just because he's considered the "frontman" doesnt mean hes the better musician

[brando4n82]

This all depends on what part of the sound matters to you; would you rather have the voice or guitar?

Gilmour IS the voice and guitar

[chucky canuck]

just because he's considered the "frontman" doesnt mean hes the better musician

That was my point. Gilmour is definitely the better musician. Waters was the frontman because he started singing most of the songs and writing most of them and coming up with the concepts.

And whoever scribbled down the credits list a few posting above makes it seems like Gilmour sang Time. Waters sang most of it. Gilmour sang the verse.

Anyway, people who know Pink Floyd realize that as the albums progressed, Waters took over more control and more of the lead vocals. That was my point.

Despite that, I still think Gilmour is the better musician and more responsible for the Floyd sound.

[Blintz]

Gilmour has better volcals? is that your arguement? Are you forgetting that hes the fucking guitarest and sound of Floyd?!?

If you actually listen to the Pink Floyd albums, they haven't had a very uniforms sound. I think that's been due to the varying emphases on their members: first Barrett (Piper At The Gates of Dawn, and almost every track sounded a different style on that album), then Gilmour took on a greater role with Dark Side, then Waters took over starting with Wish You Were Here. There's no argument that Gilmour was the guitarist of Floyd (obviously), but there's no way you can convince a Pink Floyd fan that he was the exclusive "sound of Floyd."

[trentmorrison]

You're not a Floyd fan because you spell his last name Gilmore. Obviously. You must not know music that well.

you sure know how to spin an argument, you should be a politician.

mentioning the spelling error should be noted in passing, and then you should get back to the argument, which you have none.

[thelastgreatman]

That was my point. Gilmour is definitely the better musician. Waters was the frontman because he started singing most of the songs and writing most of them and coming up with the concepts.

And whoever scribbled down the credits list a few posting above makes it seems like Gilmour sang Time. Waters sang most of it. Gilmour sang the verse.

Anyway, people who know Pink Floyd realize that as the albums progressed, Waters took over more control and more of the lead vocals. That was my point.

Despite that, I still think Gilmour is the better musician and more responsible for the Floyd sound.

You're completely wrong about Time. Try looking up the fucking credits on the album. They specifically list verse and chorus vocals. No Waters on Time. "Frontman" is pretty much always lead vocalist, especially when combined with lead guitar.

[thelastgreatman]

Also, calling Gilmour the better "musician" because he happens to be a more capable singer and guitar player isn't really entirely accurate to me. He might be more skilled at his respective instruments, but that would mean that all kinds of people are better musicians than John Lennon because Lennon wasn't really exceptionally skilled at playing guitar or singing compared to a lot of virtuosos.

[psycobetabuckdown]

you sure know how to spin an argument, you should be a politician.

mentioning the spelling error should be noted in passing, and then you should get back to the argument, which you have none.

Oh sorry, I didn't realize I had to explain the sarcasm. I wasn't making an argument related to the topic, I was only pointing out that you were acting like a music snob as well as a Pink Floyd snob. Ron Paul 2008, hope for America.

[mshine]

Exhibit A: Roger Waters: http://youtube.com/watch?v=HMD52qH1uCA @1.23

Exhibit B: David Gilmore: http://youtube.com/watch?v=tkifw0MEj10 @2.37

unless your Helen Keller, you can put this debate to rest.

Nice try, but that shit doesn't fly.

I don't need YouTube to tell me which is better because I saw them both in 2006 in NYC. In April I saw Gilmour's On An Island shows at Radio City, and later on I saw Waters at MSG.

Echoes and Wish You Were Here were the only reasons why I thought Gilmour's ticket sales were worth the $500 per night I paid.

Now, Waters at MSG and the other nights I've seen him have blown Gilmour's show off the stage, and the other Floyd fans I've spoken to at the Waters' events have pretty much agreed. Gilmour is good, I won't deny that, but he is not the showman that Waters is, and the atmosphere of his (Gilmour's) shows suffers as a result (at least IMO).

As for the 'exhibits' you provided, I would question the credibility of comparing a pro-shot, pro-recorded (and probably studio 'fixed') scene from PULSE (recorded on October 20, 1994) versus a fan recording of Waters that would have been done on Oct 5, 6, or 8th (the three dates he played the Bowl that year) of 2006. That's a 12 year gap and one got a LOT of polish and the other is raw.

Now, regarding the whole Waters "backing track" stuff. Yes. On some songs, Waters uses a backing track that he recorded back in 2006. He is singing live, but it is being almost layered. Now, before anybody brings out the pikes and erects the gallows, it should be noted that Gilmour did the same thing on both Delicate Sound of Thunder and in PULSE. Also, for Waters another thing is that when Waters would record in the studio, they would have multiple layers of him singing (to give the sound more body). In concert, it would sound off and never be 'right' if it was just him.


Now here's something else to think about re: the debate between Waters and Gilmour. Many people on this board seem to at least accept the concept of seeing Roger because they love Dark Side of the Moon. A few actually seem to like Roger's music outside of PF, so you have some exceptions.

Now, imagine, if you can, that Coachella didn't get Waters, but instead got David Gilmour, and just like Waters, Gilmour was going to reprise his 2006 set-list. He would play WYWH, maybe Echoes, and all of his new album 'On an Island'. There would be a riot when the people realize what they got duped for. Gilmour won't play an entire Floyd album (unless it was something like Piper at the Gates of Dawn that Waters really didn't write) because he just doesn't care! Gilmour wouldn't play Dark Side, or WYWH in their entirety.

You can bash Waters, call him washed up, call him a bas-been. So is Gilmour then, but at least Waters is keeping it alive. He is giving an entire generation of new Floyd fans an opportunity that they would have gotten otherwise. Some complain about how they've seen Waters DSOTM show already at the Bowl. I've seen Waters more than 8 times on this tour between 2006 and 2007 and I will see him this year. Why? Because every time I leave a Waters show I wonder 'is the last'. If I pass up the opportunity to see him play this year, can this be the last time I can see RW playing Dark Side live?

Than again, I am Floyd fan. I suppose a non-Floyd fan cannot sympathize with me on that.


End Rant

[mshine]

That was my point. Gilmour is definitely the better musician. Waters was the frontman because he started singing most of the songs and writing most of them and coming up with the concepts.

And whoever scribbled down the credits list a few posting above makes it seems like Gilmour sang Time. Waters sang most of it. Gilmour sang the verse.

Anyway, people who know Pink Floyd realize that as the albums progressed, Waters took over more control and more of the lead vocals. That was my point.

Despite that, I still think Gilmour is the better musician and more responsible for the Floyd sound.

Just as an FYI, Waters just sang Brain Damage and Eclipse on DSOTM originally. Now, in concerts, Waters does sing Time, but not on the album.

Conceptually speaking, the three main singers on the album (Gilmour on Breathe, Time, Breathe Reprise, and Money), Wright (Us and Them) and Waters (BD and Ecplise) were supposed to represent different states of mind.

Yes, I ignored Claire Torry, but not to diminish her work on Great Gig at all.

[mshine]

Gilmour has better volcals? is that your arguement? Are you forgetting that hes the fucking guitarest and sound of Floyd?!?

Insofar as 'Gilmour being the sound of Floyd', I would compare Gilmour to a 57 Chevy. Great car, runs fast, people adore it, etc. Roger Waters was the driver. You can have a great, fast car, but if nobody is driving it, it's basically a pretty lawn ornament.

Waters directed Gilmour's talents in such a way, that it forced David to work harder, come up with better. Gilmour's playing got better the more in control Waters became, the zenith of which was Animals and The Wall.

I would dare anybody to tell me that they honestly don't believe that Gilmour's best work occurred between 74-79. Tell me you think AMLOR or Division Bell was his best. I need a reason to laugh.

Gilmour was the heart, but Waters was the brain. Without the other, neither can recreate what Pink Floyd really was. Floyd was the interplay between the two of them. Waters needed somebody else to bounce his ideas off of and flesh them out with, Gilmour needed a writer and direction. It was a winning combination until the Final Cut.

[TeamCoachellaHellYeah]

Roger is fine, but I prefer the whole band....

[rage patton]

Pink Floyd. It's going to happen.

And you can quote me on that.

[Lt. Dangel]

Ive got a weird feeling also.

[TeamCoachellaHellYeah]

Pink Floyd. It's going to happen.

And you can quote me on that.

I am going to keep this sigged until the week Coachella arrives or until the name is changed on Sunday's headliner...

[bartelby]

Pink Floyd. It's going to happen.

And you can quote me on that.

please stop with this, its getting a little pathetic....you might as well ask for a full Beatles reunion

[TeamCoachellaHellYeah]

please stop with this, its getting a little pathetic....you might as well ask for a full Beatles reunion

where did you hear this? Is John really a walrus after all?

[Lt. Dangel]

http://www.pink-floyd.org/artint/rs1187.htm

after reading this short article by Rolling Stone, it seems to me that Roger Waters was at one time an egomaniacal asshole. A genious asshole, but asshole nonetheless. Any kind of reunion, it seems, is unlikely to happen because of his stubborness to accept that Gilmour is just as important to Floyd as he is.

Anyway great article if you havent read it yet. Answered a lot of questions for me about why this thread even exists.

[thelastgreatman]

Gilmour wasn't as important to Floyd as he was.

[UpAllNite]

Look at the albums pink floyd made with Waters and then without Waters, no contest that it's Waters.

[thelastgreatman]

Seriously.

[TeamCoachellaHellYeah]

Gilmour wasn't as important to Floyd as he was.

I completely agree with that...

[chucky canuck]

I think both were needed equally. Without Gilmour, Waters never produced mind-blowing songs like Comfortably Numb, Shine On, etc.
Without Waters, Gilmour can't produce any, um, great songs.
So seeing one wihtout the other is (to put it in classic rock terms) like seeing just Roger Daltrey or just Pete Townshend instead of The Who. or just Keith Richards or just Mick Jagger instead of the (ugh) Rolling Stones.

[thelastgreatman]

I think it's been thoroughly demonstrated that you don't know dick about the band, or who played what role in the creation of their work, so perhaps you should go fuck yourself, Chuck.

[chucky canuck]

I think it's been thoroughly demonstrated that you don't know dick about the band, or who played what role in the creation of their work, so perhaps you should go fuck yourself, Chuck.

I know a lot more than you.

[thelastgreatman]

Apparently not. You're the asshole that thought Waters sang on Time, remember?

[mshine]

http://www.pink-floyd.org/artint/rs1187.htm

after reading this short article by Rolling Stone, it seems to me that Roger Waters was at one time an egomaniacal asshole. A genious asshole, but asshole nonetheless. Any kind of reunion, it seems, is unlikely to happen because of his stubborness to accept that Gilmour is just as important to Floyd as he is.

Anyway great article if you havent read it yet. Answered a lot of questions for me about why this thread even exists.

That was true until Roger did his 'In the Flesh' tour. Personally, and some may not agree or think it's gay, but I think Roger wanted to show the world and the musical community that 'Roger Waters' can sell a ticket. In 1984, 1985 and 1987, this just wasn't the case. Especially in 1987 when the Floyd leviathan hit the road.

Most people don't remember those dark days between 1994 and 1999, but I certainly do. There was supposed to be another Floyd album and tour in 1997; never happened. Roger was still seen as licking his wounds after Amused to Death in 1992 failed to sell in huge numbers and Floyd's Division Bell roll across the planet.

By the time 1999 came around, fans were desperate for ANYTHING Floyd, and the internet was allowing people to look up the history of the band. So, when Waters made his decision to try something in the summer of '99, the positive reviews from KAOS, coupled with the Floyd fan bases rabid attention to anything new finally guaranteed Waters sell-out shows, and the common persons ability to now look up Waters and see who he was pushed it that much higher.

I personally believe that if 'In the Flesh' had failed, Roger probably would have retired at least as a live performer. The opposite happened, and he really hasn't gone away since.

Getting back on topic again though, once he showed that HE can sell out venues, I think he felt that changed him regarding Gilmour and the other members. In Christmas 2001-2002, he rekindled his long friendship with Mason.

I think what REALLY did it in for Roger was the death of Syd and Steve O'Rourke (their former manager). I think when they passed, Waters finally realized that if he and Gilmour didn't bury the hatchet, they never would be able to.

Now, the roles are reversed. Waters wouldn't mind getting back together for a project, Gilmour wants nothing to do with it. Gilmour is the one stopping a reunion right now. He and Waters will never be friends, but as Waters said in an interview to Charley Rose, he finally realized that he and David could work together, but agree to disagree on the past.

[brando4n82]

Apparently not. You're the asshole that thought Waters sang on Time, remember?

haha what is this nonsense chucky canuck?

[brando4n82]

That was my point. Gilmour is definitely the better musician. Waters was the frontman because he started singing most of the songs and writing most of them and coming up with the concepts.

And whoever scribbled down the credits list a few posting above makes it seems like Gilmour sang Time. Waters sang most of it. Gilmour sang the verse.

Anyway, people who know Pink Floyd realize that as the albums progressed, Waters took over more control and more of the lead vocals. That was my point.

Despite that, I still think Gilmour is the better musician and more responsible for the Floyd sound.


Alright. I don't really seem to give Waters his credit as much as I should, because of my bias towards Gilmour. Yes, Waters is an incredible musician, and is fair to say he had more creative creative input/crontrol in the band, a fact that seems to be the a large factor of the band's demise.

But also like your opinion, it is fair to say that Gilmour harnesses more of the Floyd sound in his finger tips, which is why I feel it is more rewarding to see David Gilmour live.

With Gilmour you get Wright. With Roger you get Mason. Both put on great shows. Incredible shows. and such good set lists. both of them. I cant wait to see Waters again in the desert no less. But Seeing David Gilmour live was the greatest live performance I've ever seen, and thats not saying much, considering the performer. thats all i have to say.

[Lt. Dangel]

Gilmour wasn't as important to Floyd as he was.


The more i listen to the albums that i consider to be their best, the more i agree.

but in the sense that "the fans" enjoy Gilmour's voice and contributions to the feel of Floyd, and the sense that if Gilmour doesnt get to be an integral part in the decision making Floyd ceases to exist, he is just as important.

what makes Floyd awesome, is that "strangeness" that Waters brings to the albums. Plus his voice may not be pretty, but his inflections and theatrics bring so much to the character of the songs....Gilmour was incapable of that..kind of dry, although very enjoyable to the ears tone wise.

[thelastgreatman]

Waters is why they made concept albums. Concept albums is why they're kinda better than everyone else, except maybe the Beatles. Hence, I give my ass to Waters.

[VirtualRog]

David Gilmour is a joke...plays a mean guitar and all, but come on, without Waters, Gilmour would still be playing the Tic Toc Club...he can't write music, he recruited dozens of musicians and writers to help him create a Pink Floyd sound...and it still sucked...the Momentary Lapse of Reason tour was hilarious...I saw all six in LA...it was so cheesy it was funny...you think after playing Roger's music for so many years they would have eventually figured it out, but they were obviously lost on stage without Roger‘s guidance...I went to all five of the infamous Raving and Drooling shows at the LA Sports Arena in 1975 (which were subsequently raided by then LA Police Chief Ed Davis) and they were the best concerts I've ever seen...there was no question who was in charge (the song Raving and Drooling was spellbinding; too bad it was never released)...the Animals tour in 1977, especially the California Stockyard shows at Anaheim Stadium, were a virtual traveling circus...inflatables everywhere, pyrotechnics, the round screen...it was unbelievable...I saw all seven Wall shows in LA in 1980...quite the spectacle...once again, it was all Waters...only Pros and Cons came close as far as presentation was concerned...KAOS was killer, even though it didn’t sell...and the Walden Woods benefit at Universal got Roger back on track and renewed his interest in playing live again...his reception that evening got him all misty...and led to the In the Flesh tour, which was awesome...and after seeing six DSOTM shows the past two years (the concert at the MGM Grand was insane...best sound EVER!), I couldn’t believe something that Roger made 35 years ago could sound so fresh and alive...

...regardless who you prefer, everyone here is in for a real treat. Dark Side Live is truly spectacular. The Great Pink Floyd debate will never go away, but anyone who thinks Dave was anything more than a glorified studio player hasn't been paying close enough attention.

[thelastgreatman]

FUCKING WORD

[ragingdave]

Yep.

[chucky canuck]

David Gilmour is a joke...plays a mean guitar and all, but come on, without Waters, Gilmour would still be playing the Tic Toc Club...he can't write music, he recruited dozens of musicians and writers to help him create a Pink Floyd sound...and it still sucked...the Momentary Lapse of Reason tour was hilarious...I saw all six in LA...it was so cheesy it was funny...you think after playing Roger's music for so many years they would have eventually figured it out, but they were obviously lost on stage without Roger‘s guidance...I went to all five of the infamous Raving and Drooling shows at the LA Sports Arena in 1975 (which were subsequently raided by then LA Police Chief Ed Davis) and they were the best concerts I've ever seen...there was no question who was in charge (the song Raving and Drooling was spellbinding; too bad it was never released)...the Animals tour in 1977, especially the California Stockyard shows at Anaheim Stadium, were a virtual traveling circus...inflatables everywhere, pyrotechnics, the round screen...it was unbelievable...I saw all seven Wall shows in LA in 1980...quite the spectacle...once again, it was all Waters...only Pros and Cons came close as far as presentation was concerned...KAOS was killer, even though it didn’t sell...and the Walden Woods benefit at Universal got Roger back on track and renewed his interest in playing live again...his reception that evening got him all misty...and led to the In the Flesh tour, which was awesome...and after seeing six DSOTM shows the past two years (the concert at the MGM Grand was insane...best sound EVER!), I couldn’t believe something that Roger made 35 years ago could sound so fresh and alive...

...regardless who you prefer, everyone here is in for a real treat. Dark Side Live is truly spectacular. The Great Pink Floyd debate will never go away, but anyone who thinks Dave was anything more than a glorified studio player hasn't been paying close enough attention.


The Animals tour was ravaged by critics and the new generation of musicians, who saw it as proof that rock needed the rebirth that punk offered.
Nothing better symbolized the bloated beast that rock had become than Waters' floating pig.

[VirtualRog]

The Animals tour was ravaged by critics and the new generation of musicians, who saw it as proof that rock needed the rebirth that punk offered.
Nothing symbolized the bloated beast that rock had become that Waters' floating pig.



For all of it's bombast and pretense, The Animals concert was one of those, "Ya' had to be there's..." I mean, imagine being at Anaheim in ‘77...120,000 people blasted on angel dust while Waters was setting fire to a massive inflatable pig. Of the inflatables, it was the teeming maggot-filled refrigerator that really got my attention. Waters was giving the middle finger to all his fans while they went freaking crazy for it, begging for more. Too bad no one got it or even cared. Believe me, it was all bout being stoned out of your skull and tripping on the spectacle. The fact is, the majority of the crowd didn't even know the names of the band members, and couldn’t pick them out of a crowd if their lives depended on it.

Take The Wall shows in LA, for example...hardly anyone even noticed it wasn't the Floyd that opened the concerts. For all the years I attempted to explain to people that there were men in masks pretending to be the Floyd, until ITAOT was released, featuring those same masks on the cover, people thought I just dropped too much acid (which I did), but it was still four other musicians, not Rick, Nick, Dave and Roger, that played “In the Flesh?”

Did it really matter? Hell no. The Floyd, at that point in their careers, were the most anonymous band in the free world. With their disdain for the media, and no Information Super Highway to ride on, the Floyd could have easily been four one-legged women wearing prosthetic limbs and wigs, and no one would have known or cared. And those visuals didn’t help either. Which brings up The Question when seeing a Waters Floyd or Waters concert: What do you do, watch the band or the effects? The answers is, of course, see more than one show and do both.

So ya’ll have fun. Roger’s DSOTM live will blow your little minds.

More trivia- after the first half of the concert ended in Anaheim, an irate Roger berated the crowd: “Silly people! Stop fighting! It’s very hard to play with you all kicking the shit out of each other! If you don’t stop killing each other, we won’t come back out and play the second set...”

[CurableOkie]

08 Oct - Hollywood Bowl, Los Angeles, CA, USA (with Nick Mason)

Ummmm, was looking at the tour dates of the last time Roger did the DSotM tour and saw this.

Does this mean we should expect some "special guests" for this show?

[bliss209]

Waters is why they made concept albums. Concept albums is why they're kinda better than everyone else, except maybe the Beatles. Hence, I give my ass to Waters.

AMEN!!

This thread is sounds exactly like my dad and my uncle after a 24 pack of budweiser reminiscing there good 'ol days when they were roadies HAHA

So...... what new message do you think there will be on the pig?
"jack johnson is a nice guy, dont hate on him" :rotfl
LOL

[bliss209]

08 Oct - Hollywood Bowl, Los Angeles, CA, USA (with Nick Mason)

Ummmm, was looking at the tour dates of the last time Roger did the DSotM tour and saw this.

Does this mean we should expect some "special guests" for this show?

i was thinking about that too, which would be super sweet! I saw the DSotM tour in '06 & '07 and the shows i got to see DIDN'T have Mason. And it looks as if this MIGHT be the last show for '08 in the US. I dont know if this is a break for him, but there is only three shows set for the year (so far). normally the dates for the whole tour (or at least the majority of them) are released together for his shows.

[brando4n82]

08 Oct - Hollywood Bowl, Los Angeles, CA, USA (with Nick Mason)

Ummmm, was looking at the tour dates of the last time Roger did the DSotM tour and saw this.

Does this mean we should expect some "special guests" for this show?

I saw Roger Waters with Mason at the hollywood bowl in '06 on the third night he played. Waters played his first set, and then Mason came out and did DSOTM with Waters.
Saw the same show at the same venue in '07 and Mason was not there, so who knows. Mason played a lot of the shows with Waters in '06, but only played, i believe 2 shows with him in '07, both in the UK. so time will tell..

[Lt. Dangel]

That was true until Roger did his 'In the Flesh' tour. Personally, and some may not agree or think it's gay, but I think Roger wanted to show the world and the musical community that 'Roger Waters' can sell a ticket. In 1984, 1985 and 1987, this just wasn't the case. Especially in 1987 when the Floyd leviathan hit the road.

Most people don't remember those dark days between 1994 and 1999, but I certainly do. There was supposed to be another Floyd album and tour in 1997; never happened. Roger was still seen as licking his wounds after Amused to Death in 1992 failed to sell in huge numbers and Floyd's Division Bell roll across the planet.

By the time 1999 came around, fans were desperate for ANYTHING Floyd, and the internet was allowing people to look up the history of the band. So, when Waters made his decision to try something in the summer of '99, the positive reviews from KAOS, coupled with the Floyd fan bases rabid attention to anything new finally guaranteed Waters sell-out shows, and the common persons ability to now look up Waters and see who he was pushed it that much higher.

I personally believe that if 'In the Flesh' had failed, Roger probably would have retired at least as a live performer. The opposite happened, and he really hasn't gone away since.

Getting back on topic again though, once he showed that HE can sell out venues, I think he felt that changed him regarding Gilmour and the other members. In Christmas 2001-2002, he rekindled his long friendship with Mason.

I think what REALLY did it in for Roger was the death of Syd and Steve O'Rourke (their former manager). I think when they passed, Waters finally realized that if he and Gilmour didn't bury the hatchet, they never would be able to.

Now, the roles are reversed. Waters wouldn't mind getting back together for a project, Gilmour wants nothing to do with it. Gilmour is the one stopping a reunion right now. He and Waters will never be friends, but as Waters said in an interview to Charley Rose, he finally realized that he and David could work together, but agree to disagree on the past.

Thank you.

[VirtualRog]

That was true until Roger did his 'In the Flesh' tour. Personally, and some may not agree or think it's gay, but I think Roger wanted to show the world and the musical community that 'Roger Waters' can sell a ticket. In 1984, 1985 and 1987, this just wasn't the case. Especially in 1987 when the Floyd leviathan hit the road.

Most people don't remember those dark days between 1994 and 1999, but I certainly do. There was supposed to be another Floyd album and tour in 1997; never happened. Roger was still seen as licking his wounds after Amused to Death in 1992 failed to sell in huge numbers and Floyd's Division Bell roll across the planet.

By the time 1999 came around, fans were desperate for ANYTHING Floyd, and the internet was allowing people to look up the history of the band. So, when Waters made his decision to try something in the summer of '99, the positive reviews from KAOS, coupled with the Floyd fan bases rabid attention to anything new finally guaranteed Waters sell-out shows, and the common persons ability to now look up Waters and see who he was pushed it that much higher.

I personally believe that if 'In the Flesh' had failed, Roger probably would have retired at least as a live performer. The opposite happened, and he really hasn't gone away since.

Getting back on topic again though, once he showed that HE can sell out venues, I think he felt that changed him regarding Gilmour and the other members. In Christmas 2001-2002, he rekindled his long friendship with Mason.

I think what REALLY did it in for Roger was the death of Syd and Steve O'Rourke (their former manager). I think when they passed, Waters finally realized that if he and Gilmour didn't bury the hatchet, they never would be able to.

Now, the roles are reversed. Waters wouldn't mind getting back together for a project, Gilmour wants nothing to do with it. Gilmour is the one stopping a reunion right now. He and Waters will never be friends, but as Waters said in an interview to Charley Rose, he finally realized that he and David could work together, but agree to disagree on the past.

Great post! As subjective and comprehensive as anything I've read about the current state of Pink Floyd in a long, long time. Well done. You just educated a lot of people in one very economical post.

Without a doubt, the Internet Age saved Roger from a fate worse than death: That David Gilmour would be remembered in the history books as Pink Floyd. And there is also no doubt why Roger is calling his current two-year swing through the universe as "Roger Waters: Dark Side of the Moon" I love the guy, and I don't love guys, but that's pretty freakin’ cheesy. Yeah Roger, we know you wrote the lyrics for DSOTM and a lot of the music, but do you really have to add the title of the world's second most familiar record to your tour? Evidently the answer was yes. Roger is making sure we all know who did what...but can you blame him?

After the commercial failures of both Radio KAOS and Amused to Death, rumors swirled that Roger had entered a sanitarium in Pennsylvania to assist him in dealing with his depression. Roger wasn't used to failure...not like this. First the high courts in England ruled that Pink Floyd, the corporation, is like Boeing or McDonald's, and it really doesn't matter who's holding the reins. Roger lost his band...and his mind...while Dave & Co. grabbed the world by the balls and held tight, even though the product they were selling was nothing more than a cheaper, slicker version of it's predecessor...kinda like a Honda compared to a Chevy.

And Roger Waters had high hopes for Amused to Death reviving his career. But alas, the recording was too wordy and too slow...it's an amazing, complex piece of work, but too solemn and very sad...and far too complicated for the masses. Even many hard-core fans winced at the length and subject matter. "Hadn't Roger covered all this ground in the Wall and the Final Cut?" The official response was a resounding "YUK!"

After KAOS, where Roger virtually sacrificed his artistic integrity for commercial access, and it failed (largely in part, as mentioned by the original poster, because Pink Fraud's massive world tour was in full swing), he was on the verge of losing his mind. But his new record would keep the world spinning in the right direction.

Wrong. ATD bombed, Roger went nuts...and you can all thank me and those Roger fans at Walden Woods for the ovation we gave him. His taste for performing was wetted and I was there, screaming at the top of my lungs. Roger was almost...very freaking close...to crying. How do I know? I was right up front, with tears in my eyes as well. Roger subsequently regrouped and hit the road a few years later with his “In the Flesh” tour, which was so successful many shows were upgraded to larger venues at the last minute to accommodate the overwhelming demand

So where did the Floyd go wrong? Who did what to whom and who did it first?

Roger did it You can trust me.

Roger only has himself to blame for many of the problems. Can you say, Demigod?

First mistake: refusing to release the original follow-up to Dark Side of the Moon. Dave and Rick...and even Nick, Roger's ally...wanted it released as is. But Roger ‘wasn’t happy with it,’ even after months and months of touring and recording, ad nauseum. So the follow up to the world's number one recording was never 'officially' released. Bootlegs of the recording sessions are said to be the most sought after tapes on the planet. The album, originally titled, "Shine On You Crazy Diamond" featured three songs: "Raving & Drooling", "You Gotta Be Crazy"& “Shine On..." Raving & Drooling” is the best rock music track I have ever heard. Period. A close second: “Gotta Be Crazy"...especially the fast, acoustic version played for the first half of the tour and changed in mid-tour (during the LA set) to a version more similar to "Dogs"

Roger's ego got the best of him. And it was just the beginning. His decision to end the band because they were ‘creatively dead’ was obviously wrong. Once again, Roger's ego caused him to step on his own dick.

Now, onto modern times...Roger and the Boys at Live 8. Was that cool or what? Unfortunately, it became apparent, after seeing the band on stage together, many for the first time, that the band belonged to Roger Waters.

Obviously, there would be NO Pink Floyd without Dave. Shit, Syd was gone before the smoke had cleared...and Dave was there to step in when they needed him. And his contributions can't be denied, but I still believe his best contribution was his first, Ummagumma's “The Narrow Way.”

Which brings us to today. People, you are about to see one of the world’s greatest artists performing one of the world's greatest recordings. And just to make sure...nudge, nudge, wink, wink...we all know what ‘used’ to go on...he has this light show thingie...

...to quote David Gilmore in the film "Pink Floyd at Pompeii" after being asked if the Floyd were a 'drug oriented' band.

"No. You can trust us."

Have fun. And be sure to be good boys and girls and eat your mushrooms.

[fikus222]

Waters is a condescending asshole who speaks down to his crowds and seems unaware of the individual personality of the cities he is performing in.

[VirtualRog]

Waters is a condescending asshole who speaks down to his crowds and seems unaware of the individual personality of the cities he is performing in.

Um, Roger speaks down to everyone. Don't feel like the lone stranger.

[fikus222]

Oh I figured as much, its just that I prefer David Gilmour's unassuming attitude and the high degree of talent that he brings to his shows. I find it a bit funny that a man, Waters, who said that Pink Floyd was artistically exhausted now tours playing this material exclusively.