Justice Billed Over Fatboy Slim: Is nothing impervious to hype?

[xbnmx]

Can someone please explain to me how a production team with one album and less than a year touring as a live act can possibly be billed over a stapble of the international DJ scene who's been at it for well over a decade and has been topping festival line-ups for years?

[evilmushroompie]

No. No one can. It is a fucked up thing.

[thelastgreatman]

Honestly though, as someone who's mildly into EDM but very critical of it, I have yet to see a Fatboy clip that remotely made me want to see him. That Brighton Beach shit SUCKED. The clips of Justice in the Sahara last year are at least mildly entertaining, although they still kinda suck.

[Yookeroo]

Fatboy should be billed higher, but does it really matter? Do we really care about billing?

[zenidogx]

goldenvoice <3 justice

it's that simple.

[Bud Luster]

Actually, Norman has a lot to prove these days. His production has fallen off and his dj sets last year left a lot to be desired. He needs to go back to the nasty big beat mixed with funky acid noise and keep the set rocking and fun.

[thelastgreatman]

It's been a long time since Praise You. C'mon, people.

[captncrzy]

Who fucking cares.

[paulb]

who cares, they are both playing Coachella, you'll have a chance to see both acts, its not like Fatboy Slim is opening for Justice. and if you compair the Friday lineup to the Sunday lineup, they are billed at the same position, and there are no electronic acts as big as Justice on the sunday lineup, and Fatboy Slim is the biggest electronic act on friday... so shut up.

[BeHereNOW]

in the line up by day they are about the same

[Memorial_07]

Justice was more demanded than Fatboy was.

[MonsoonSeason]

justice is currently more popular with the hipsters. deal.

[orbit]

And hipsters are invading the Sahara.

[gratytrainridesagain]

hahaha

[thelastgreatman]

Also, they're billed at the end of one line with Fatboy the second name on the line just beneath them. They're both closing the tent, Justice on the bigger night. And for Coachella's crowd, of course Justice is going to be a bigger name. How are you people still clinging onto some notion that Fatboy was like groundbreaking or some shit? He ain't Underworld, motherfuckers.

[Sonicifyouwantit]

just look back at billing on previous years posters and compare to set times. Just because someones name is billed higher does not mean they will be playing later or get a bigger stage.

[rage patton]

just look back at billing on previous years posters and compare to set times. Just because someones name is billed higher does not mean they will be playing later or get a bigger stage.

At Coachella, billing has NOTHING to do with when they will play. For the most part, billing arguments are about the principal behind it.

[Sonicifyouwantit]

At Coachella, billing has NOTHING to do with when they will play. For the most part, billing arguments are about the principal behind it.

I know just trying to give some hope

[Memorial_07]

on the poster, if they are billed higher its probably for hype.
or who is popular at the time.
and someone mentioned earlier that how high they are billed doesn't correspond with their time slot or stage.

[ChiefThunderFist]

Why? Because Justice's show at the Fonda last fall was an epic experience (key word being "experience" and not "set").

Rarely do you see a crowd go so crazy.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=C36qvOErpI8&mode=related&search

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q7Nn9CnxXEM&mode=related&search=JUSTICE

People literally crowd surfed from the front to the back. That never happens in LA.

[kingsblend420]

on the poster, if they are billed higher its probably for hype.
or who is popular at the time.
and someone mentioned earlier that how high they are billed doesn't correspond with their time slot or stage.

Yeah. Last year VNV Nation closed one the tents on Sunday. They were billed waaaaaaaaaaaaay down on the bottom.

[idrive1life]

Can someone please explain to me how a production team with one album and less than a year touring as a live act can possibly be billed over a stapble of the international DJ scene who's been at it for well over a decade and has been topping festival line-ups for years?

Word.

[M Sparks]

It's been a long time since Praise You. C'mon, people.

It's been a long time since The Wall too. Hell, it's been a long time since Radio KAOS. There are a lot of factors in billing.

That said, I don't think it's that far out of wack. Justice made a big splash at Coachella last year, and that's reflected in the billing. Same for Gogol. Put this same lineup on a different fest and it would be different.

[M Sparks]

Yeah. Last year VNV Nation closed one the tents on Sunday. They were billed waaaaaaaaaaaaay down on the bottom.

Gogol were even lower and they had the same slot as VNV on Friday.

Infected Mushroom weren't much higher than VNV and they closed Sahara the same day.

Evil Nine were second to last and closed the Sahara on Friday.

Busdriver was 3rd from the bottom and played mid-evening in the Gobi.

Jarvis Cocker/Sonic Youth/DJ Shadow played in the exact opposite order they were billed on the outdoor stage.

That's just off the top of my head. Seems like Friday in particular was nutty.

EDIT: VNV wasn't "WAY down on the bottom"...they were like 4th or 5th line. I think Evil Nine had the most dramatic jump, probably because they figured most people who hang in the Sahara would either go to Bjork or DJ Shadow.

[thelastgreatman]

It's been a long time since The Wall too. Hell, it's been a long time since Radio KAOS. There are a lot of factors in billing.

That said, I don't think it's that far out of wack. Justice made a big splash at Coachella last year, and that's reflected in the billing. Same for Gogol. Put this same lineup on a different fest and it would be different.

Yeah, I don't think that fucking Praise You and The Wall are particularly analagous.

[M Sparks]

Yeah, I don't think that fucking Praise You and The Wall are particularly analagous.

Touche'

[moviebruin]

Fatboy Slim will have special guest Richard Koufey and Torrance Community Dance Group performing with him, which makes his set this year greater than anything Justice can come up with.

[Trick Loves The Kids]

Yeah, I don't think that fucking Praise You and The Wall are particularly analagous.

aren't you the one who thinks underworld is the only band in history to make a worthwhile electronic album?

[Tijuana]

It's been a long time since Praise You. C'mon, people.

Yeah,

but he's released a load of remixes and new dance tracks. If you don't buy vinyl and .mp3 singles, you wouldn't know much about it.

[Sonicifyouwantit]

Yeah, I don't think that fucking Praise You and The Wall are particularly analagous.

the very first (analyst/therapist) an analrapist

[matsuolost]

the very first (analyst/therapist) an analrapist

haha tobias funke

[M Sparks]

the very first (analyst/therapist) an analrapist

Don't know how we got there, but as long as we did...
lPHDUyN5W6k

[instinct]

Can someone please explain to me how a production team with one album and less than a year touring as a live act can possibly be billed over a stapble of the international DJ scene who's been at it for well over a decade and has been topping festival line-ups for years?

That would be bullshit.. but they are billed the same. Anyways.. Justice has waaaay too much hype now.. I was hyping Justice up last year like crazy.. and I thought their set was somewhat disappointing. Although, when I saw them again at Pukkelpop it was way better (and longer).

[Trick Loves The Kids]

instinct your sig is so great

[instinct]

instinct your sig is so great

thank you. I <3 you.

[alex97]

No. No one can. It is a fucked up thing.

hipsters

[thelastgreatman]

aren't you the one who thinks underworld is the only band in history to make a worthwhile electronic album?

Well, that's half true. But I'm just saying--Fatboy Slim's bullshit is still a step far below Underworld, Chems, Crystal, Daft (recently), and a lot of other people who have been around that long. It's fucking Big Beat, dude. Those clips from Brighton Beach were such eurotrash garbage EDM bullshit, and he looks like fucking Spud from Trainspotting.

[thelastgreatman]

And yes, for the record: Born Slippy > everything else in electronic music ever. It's the A Day In The Life of that arena of music.

EDIT: Plus, you know, Underworld actually, like, SINGS. They don't just spin shit. They're legitimately live performers. Justice and Fatboy are on the same level, but there's no way you can claim in So Cal that Fatboy's a bigger draw.

[mountmccabe]

O5vQP_RFccY

[thelastgreatman]

Wow, is that really them back in 88? That's hilarious. But c'mon, find me ANY clip that compares to how awesome this is.

K7Pts7AljZQ

[full on idle]

O5vQP_RFccY

You are the best team.

[thelastgreatman]

Point The Second:

l2q4DPdrR8Y&feature=related

[Bosco]

uQtM3p1zwWY

oh wait....

[thelastgreatman]

Just from looking through Youtube I'm now insanely pissed Underworld isn't playing this year again.

EDIT: Point The Motherfucking Third:

f1JF1W_i0-I

[M Sparks]

Wow, is that really them back in 88?

Yes, and this is them in '84, when they were just an unpronouncable squiggle.

r7rbId3feNw

[rage patton]

Wow, is that really them back in 88? That's hilarious. But c'mon, find me ANY clip that compares to how awesome this is.

K7Pts7AljZQ

Not gonna lie... this is the only Underworld song I really know. And I would love to see them live, just based on THIS clip.

[thelastgreatman]

I don't care what anyone says, they are responsible for club music becoming actually good.

[Trick Loves The Kids]

Plus, you know, Underworld actually, like, SINGS. They don't just spin shit. They're legitimately live performers.

ROCKIST BULLSHIT DETECTED

Yeah Fatboy is big beat, that's what the fuck I'm trying to listen to. Sometimes, you know, you just want to hear a dude drop huge beats about how he's fucking in heaven and how california is druggy druggy druggy. For some reason you rock dudes have a hard time realizing that music can just be, you know, fun. I don't want a message, I could hardly care less if he has a ten-piece Eskimo choir or just playing tracks off his iPod, I want to hang out with Fatboy Slim and a few tens of thousands of people and dance the night away sucka.

[full on idle]

In the last week or so, Li'l Wang has become an EDM aficienado.

[thelastgreatman]

ROCKIST BULLSHIT DETECTED

Yeah Fatboy is big beat, that's what the fuck I'm trying to listen to. Sometimes, you know, you just want to hear a dude drop huge beats about how he's fucking in heaven and how california is druggy druggy druggy. For some reason you rock dudes have a hard time realizing that music can just be, you know, fun. I don't want a message, I could hardly care less if he has a ten-piece Eskimo choir or just playing tracks off his iPod, I want to hang out with Fatboy Slim and a few tens of thousands of people and dance the night away sucka.

Who the fuck is talking about a message? I'm saying how the fuck can you compare the music of those two and say in any way that Fatboy would be remotely as exciting? Jesus Christ, dude, you'll just fucking dance to anything won't you?

[thelastgreatman]

In the last week or so, Li'l Wang has become an EDM aficienado.

aficienado, huh? Not a word you see every day. =)

You don't have to be an authority on the matter to listen to Fatboy Slim and go, "Well, this is shite."

[full on idle]

yeah I was too lazy to look up the spelling

I don't know why you're pitting Fatboy Slim against Underworld though, especially when Ben was starting a legitimate conversation about Fatboy Slim vs. Justice.

[thelastgreatman]

Or read books.

[full on idle]

What?

[thelastgreatman]

I was saying you're illiterate. If you read, you would know how to spell. That was the gist of the joke.

[full on idle]

good one

[thelastgreatman]

I'm officially turning this into the why Underworld is better than everyone thread.
RCD2z7vmMmE&feature=related

ZwxS2C2AmzY&feature=related

cUYWs0q8iZE&feature=related

LO5FBgnSKJk&feature=related

[betao]

THIS is what should have been at Coachella this year, along with Fatboy Slim.

meC626CYAKs

[rage patton]

Fatboy --> Underworld on Friday would pretty much the greatest thing ever.

EDIT: That is, unless either conflict with Battles and/or Sharron Jones. Then that would suck.

[mountmccabe]

Underworld was one of my favorite bands then Darren Emerson left and they haven't made me care since.

Other than Coachella 2003, that is.

[thelastgreatman]

Or, y'know, just Underworld. That would've been fine too. Then it wouldn't have required sitting through crap to get to genius.

[Trick Loves The Kids]

Who the fuck is talking about a message? I'm saying how the fuck can you compare the music of those two and say in any way that Fatboy would be remotely as exciting? Jesus Christ, dude, you'll just fucking dance to anything won't you?

Fatboy Slim is fucking in heaven.

Underworld is NOT fucking in heaven.

End of story.

[thelastgreatman]

Jesus Christ, your taste stinks on ice, raveboy.

[Trick Loves The Kids]

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l234/dvsalias/post-2095-1191388362.jpg

[thelastgreatman]

You're white and you can't dance and that's why you would possibly want Fatboy over Underworld. Post ONE fucking Fatboy clip that compares to those.

[Trick Loves The Kids]

http://tinypic.com/6i8nih.jpg

[thelastgreatman]

If you were actually black, you'd be funny.

[Trick Loves The Kids]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/linda-u/S-mad-u-crew.jpg

[Bud Luster]

eh, underworld sucks without Emerson.

[xbnmx]

Fatboy Slim>Underworld

[thelastgreatman]

You're all queers with no soul.

[Trick Loves The Kids]

Did what's her name get at you yesterday?

[instinct]

ROCKIST BULLSHIT DETECTED

Yeah Fatboy is big beat, that's what the fuck I'm trying to listen to. Sometimes, you know, you just want to hear a dude drop huge beats about how he's fucking in heaven and how california is druggy druggy druggy. For some reason you rock dudes have a hard time realizing that music can just be, you know, fun. I don't want a message, I could hardly care less if he has a ten-piece Eskimo choir or just playing tracks off his iPod, I want to hang out with Fatboy Slim and a few tens of thousands of people and dance the night away sucka.


Will you be my friend?

[thelastgreatman]

Look at the company you're in, Trick. Basically, other ugly white kids with no taste.

[malcolmjamalawesome]

Did someone call my name?

[malcolmjamalawesome]

Also, the fact that VP of Raving Trick Loves The Kid is NOT black makes him about 10,000 times more funny, for the record.

[Lazaro]

Fatboy Slim = great party
Underworld = great music

[kreutz2112]

And hipsters are invading the Sahara.

mustaches are invading the sahara.

[Robototron]

Underworld and Fatboy Slim are both making the same Big Beat bullshit way past their prime. Neither is really even worth talking about so seriously at this point.

Also, it's hilarious that some ugly white guy who can't dance is making fun of some other ugly white guy who can't dance. You guys might as well be the same fucking person because you're arguing the same shit. Post-90s Fatboy Slim, Underworld, Chemical Brothers, etc. is all in the same boat.

Actually, I will say that at this point Tricks has better taste, because he isn't stupid enough to think that Underworld is the greatest Electronic act of all time and the only ones with an album worth listening to or whatever the fuck thelastgreatman thinks.

[kreutz2112]

It's hard to take Justice serious as well. Have you ever heard a DJ set from Justice? It's fucking comedy. The entire Ed Banger crew will be in the trash by late this year.

[Robototron]

It's hard to take Justice serious as well. Have you ever heard a DJ set from Justice? It's fucking comedy. The entire Ed Banger crew will be in the trash by late this year.

Does anyone really take Ed Banger seriously anymore? I think most people are kind of over it by now.

[Blintz]

Underworld and Fatboy Slim are both making the same Big Beat bullshit way past their prime. Neither is really even worth talking about so seriously at this point.

WTF you ignorant dumbass? Underworld never had anything to do with big beat (that was all crystal method, fatboy slim, some chem. bros, etc.)... they're more old-school trance. I don't think Fatboy Slim is worth taking seriously, given that he rode his wave of hype out several years ago and never was a very good producer- more of a DJ. Under, on the other hand, has been going strong since the early 90's and is was better than almost anything else out there in EDM land.

[kreutz2112]

Does anyone really take Ed Banger seriously anymore? I think most people are kind of over it by now.

I guarantee the sahara will be PACKED for Justice. I hope they conflict with Roger Waters.

[Trick Loves The Kids]

Your honor, I'd like the record to show that I CAN dance.

[Robototron]

WTF you ignorant dumbass? Underworld never had anything to do with big beat (that was all crystal method, fatboy slim, some chem. bros, etc.)... they're more old-school trance. I don't think Fatboy Slim is worth taking seriously, given that he rode his wave of hype out several years ago and never was a very good producer- more of a DJ. Under, on the other hand, has been going strong since the early 90's and is was better than almost anything else out there in EDM land.

Yeah, Oblivion With Bells was just fucking magical.

I don't really care what's Big Beat and what isn't because very little of it is even worth paying attention to, what I meant was that they're all the same mega-popular British dance music. Yeah, Dubnobasswithmyheadman was a good album, but at this point who really cares about them? It's the same with all those groups.

[woogie846]

Ed Banger is getting a little old for me, however I still find Justice on my iPod and me dancing like an idiot to it all the time.

[Blintz]

Yeah, Oblivion With Bells was just fucking magical.

I don't really care what's Big Beat and what isn't because very little of it is even worth paying attention to, what I meant was that they're all the same mega-popular British dance music. Yeah, Dubnobasswithmyheadman was a good album, but at this point who really cares about them? It's the same with all those groups.

Well, I'm not going to argue about Oblivion With Bells since it's obviously not their best, but that doesn't change the fact that Underworld is classic. I don't know what you mean by "it's the same with all those groups." You're not going to dismiss the entire genre of electronic music as some homogenous mass of mediocrity, right? And no, Underworld is not mega-popular British dance music. The same way that many people who claim to love Pink Floyd have only heard "Comfortably Numb" on the radio when they were drunk and making out, a lot of Underworld's popularity came from people who appreciate neither EDM nor Underworld, and were just getting on the Born Slippy bandwagon cuz Oakey was playing it.

[Robototron]

Well, I'm not going to argue about Oblivion With Bells since it's obviously not their best, but that doesn't change the fact that Underworld is classic. I don't know what you mean by "it's the same with all those groups." You're not going to dismiss the entire genre of electronic music as some homogenous mass of mediocrity, right? And no, Underworld is not mega-popular British dance music. The same way that many people who claim to love Pink Floyd have only heard "Comfortably Numb" on the radio when they were drunk and making out, a lot of Underworld's popularity came from people who appreciate neither EDM nor Underworld, and were just getting on the Born Slippy bandwagon cuz Oakey was playing it.

How am I dismissing all Electronic music? Having noticed your other posts on this board, you seem to be the one that isn't really interested in EDM outside of the really popular stuff.

I'm not going to argue with you about whether or not Underworld is massively popular. One thing I've noticed is that everyone seems to have a really warped view of what's popular and what isn't, so whatever.

[Blintz]

How am I dismissing all Electronic music? Having noticed your other posts on this board, you seem to be the one that isn't really interested in EDM outside of the really popular stuff.

I'm not going to argue with you about whether or not Underworld is massively popular. One thing I've noticed is that everyone seems to have a really warped view of what's popular and what isn't, so whatever.

I didn't say you were dismissing all electronic music, I just took issue with your implication that all popular electronic music (whether Underworld or "big beat") is the same. Compare some shit like "Not Over Yet" (Grace) with legit stuff like Future Sound of London. BTW, no congratulations on your forensic skills are forthcoming, since my posts really would only address existing discussions- I wouldn't need to bring up my personal tastes, only address the more mainstream concerns of others. Don't dismiss me with that.

[Robototron]

I didn't say you were dismissing all electronic music, I just took issue with your implication that all popular electronic music (whether Underworld or "big beat") is the same. Compare some shit like "Not Over Yet" (Grace) with legit stuff like Future Sound of London. BTW, no congratulations on your forensic skills are forthcoming, since my posts really would only address existing discussions- I wouldn't need to bring up my personal tastes, only address the more mainstream concerns of others. Don't dismiss me with that.

"WTF you ignorant dumbass?"

"You're not going to dismiss the entire genre of electronic music as some homogenous mass of mediocrity, right?"

All three of the posts you've made in response to mine have been unbelievably condescending.

Also, if you want to know what posts lead me to believe that you only care about popular stuff, it was, along with your posts in this thread, these:

From a DnB thread:

"I think some real EDM is needed to balance that hipster contingent out. Unless we get The Prodigy or Underworld or something to add a little weight to the dance side…"

From some Chem Bros thread:

"well yes, I'd love to have the Chem. Bros or Underworld (preferably both!)... I think it'd bring some diversity to the Coachella crowd anyways, instead of a bunch of hipster Pitchfork kids"

It might have been someone else, but I think I remember you complaining about all the hipster Electro House this year, and then naming Sasha & Diggers or something as good EDM. All this talk of electronic music and the only groups you mention are the big names? But if you'd like to tell me all about the classic Trance you love, then go ahead, I'm all ears.

[Trick Loves The Kids]

Well, I heard this hellsa funky beat, but then I realized it was a hipster beat so I didn't dance to it.

[DaFunkyPrecedent]

...silly topic.

[Trailmix]

I guarantee the sahara will be PACKED for Justice. I hope they conflict with Roger Waters.

Yes it will be packed but that is because of the hype. It certainly was not packed last year during their set. Justice still is overrated. I do not dislike Justice just do not think they are all that. Also the rest of Ed Banger is garbage.

[Blintz]

"WTF you ignorant dumbass?"

"You're not going to dismiss the entire genre of electronic music as some homogenous mass of mediocrity, right?"

All three of the posts you've made in response to mine have been unbelievably condescending.

Also, if you want to know what posts lead me to believe that you only care about popular stuff, it was, along with your posts in this thread, these:

From a DnB thread:

"I think some real EDM is needed to balance that hipster contingent out. Unless we get The Prodigy or Underworld or something to add a little weight to the dance side…"

From some Chem Bros thread:

"well yes, I'd love to have the Chem. Bros or Underworld (preferably both!)... I think it'd bring some diversity to the Coachella crowd anyways, instead of a bunch of hipster Pitchfork kids"

It might have been someone else, but I think I remember you complaining about all the hipster Electro House this year, and then naming Sasha & Diggers or something as good EDM. All this talk of electronic music and the only groups you mention are the big names? But if you'd like to tell me all about the classic Trance you love, then go ahead, I'm all ears.

Wow... sounds like a challenge! I like a lot of more obscure stuff: Acen, Cygnus X, Astral Projection, Prana, etc. Hallucinogen/Shpongle too, lots of stuff like that that's well known among certain groups but unheard of outside. Even Experience (The Prodigy) would be totally unknown to many people that identify themselves as Prodigy fans.

Besides, I'm not arguing that all popular, big-name acts are bad. In fact, I'd say that a big name act like The Prodigy is far superior to a less well-known (but hyped) act like Does If Offend You, Yeah? Same goes for Underworld and, to an extent, the Chemical Brothers- they're popular because they're really good. That said, the vast majority of their fans, once acts reach that level of popularity, only known them through 1 or 2 overplayed hits (Dig Your Own Hole, Born Slippy, Smack My Bitch Up, etc.).
I'm curious why you're lumping Sasha & Digweed in with the rest of the big acts- they haven't been really popular in 5 years, and their heyday was a decade ago. I just like them because they're good.

As for my well-publicized dislike for hipster, electro shit, my problem is that it's essentially alt rock fans trying to appropriate dance culture to mask the generic nature of their music. While Justice and Digitalism definitely rock, they're more electronic musicians, just using a rock song format. On the other hand, groups like the Rapture and the Klaxons are just superficially imitating parts of rave culture (loud synths, glowsticks, sirens, etc.) to dishonestly attempt to differentiate themselves from the pack.

I'm not sure what we're arguing about anyways...

[thelastgreatman]

Also, the fact that VP of Raving Trick Loves The Kid is NOT black makes him about 10,000 times more funny, for the record.

You might have a point.

And no Trick, you can't dance. I guarantee it. Raving is not fucking dancing.

Underworld and Fatboy Slim are both making the same Big Beat bullshit way past their prime. Neither is really even worth talking about so seriously at this point.

Also, it's hilarious that some ugly white guy who can't dance is making fun of some other ugly white guy who can't dance. You guys might as well be the same fucking person because you're arguing the same shit. Post-90s Fatboy Slim, Underworld, Chemical Brothers, etc. is all in the same boat.

Actually, I will say that at this point Tricks has better taste, because he isn't stupid enough to think that Underworld is the greatest Electronic act of all time and the only ones with an album worth listening to or whatever the fuck thelastgreatman thinks.

First off all, for clarification--I'm GORGEOUS. Let's get that fucking straight. And the point is that post or pre 90s, Underworld and Fatboy are not remotely in the same class. You clearly know dick about this dick-loving genre.

[Calamity Jane]

First off all, for clarification--I'm GORGEOUS. Let's get that fucking straight.

whcUdCkjd_k

[thelastgreatman]

Damn skippy. Who doesn't want to fuck those nostrils? TRY AND CLAIM IT, YOU LYING MOTHERFUCKERS.

[Robototron]

First off all, for clarification--I'm GORGEOUS. Let's get that fucking straight. And the point is that post or pre 90s, Underworld and Fatboy are not remotely in the same class. You clearly know dick about this dick-loving genre.

“Honestly though, as someone who's mildly into EDM but very critical of it”

Ok, buddy.

Blintz, I wasn’t serious when I asked you to talk about classic Trance, but it’s nice that you did. Too many people know jack shit about good Trance and think it's all Tiesto and Van Buuren, so I’m glad you actually have a clue.

I agree that a group like The Prodigy is better than Does It Offend You, but that’s more because DIOYY are really bad. I guess I’m the type of person that immediately thinks popularity = bad, because it’s generally true more often than not. Not that I think that Fatboy Slim or whoever is bad because they're popular, I actually like some of this stuff, I just think it’s a massive waste of time to still care about when most of these groups haven’t made anything decent since the 90s. The fact that they're really popular doesn't really make a difference.

I didn’t mention Sasha & Digweed as being comparable to Fatboy Slim or anything like that, but they’re still pretty popular. Maybe not as popular as they were, but neither are most of these groups. They haven’t been good for a while, anyway.

I don’t really see a difference between a group like Digitalism and a band like The Rapture. They’re making the same Dance-Punk stuff, except one of them uses synths to make rock music and the other uses guitars to make dance music. I wouldn’t really say that The Rapture are as bad as Klaxons as appropriating rave culture, The Rapture have more in common with Post-Punk groups like Gang of Four than anything else.

[thelastgreatman]

Way to continue your pointless circle jerk. I am mildly into EDM because it's filled with assholes who think that shit like trance and Fatboy Slim are listenable.

[Robototron]

Way to continue your pointless circle jerk. I am mildly into EDM because it's filled with assholes who think that shit like trance and Fatboy Slim are listenable.

So basically you're an idiot.

[Trick Loves The Kids]

I guess I’m the type of person that immediately thinks popularity = bad, because it’s generally true more often than not

well, that's one way to get me to disregard your opinion completely

[Robototron]

well, that's one way to get me to disregard your opinion completely

Haha, I don't think it's really that strange a thing to say. Lots of people think that way and they just don't want to admit it because they want to appear open minded" or whatever. Generally speaking though, if you look at any genre other than Hip-Hop, if it's popular it's usually terrible (in the US at least).

[nbvwes]

wasn't Justice like on the bottom line last year?

[paulb]

wasn't Justice like on the bottom line last year?

around there.... quite the impressive year they've had.

[Trick Loves The Kids]

It's Dr. Dre's birthday, everyone listen to "The Chronic" and go outside and light that shit up.

[malcolmjamalawesome]

I will be lighting actual shit up.

[jackstraw94086]

When did Trick Loves The Kids get voted VP of Raving?
I would have voted for him but nobody told me when the elections were held.



All this discussion is superfluous. It doesn't matter if Fatboy Slim's sound is past its prime. So is Justice's, and it only took them 8 months to get there.
Fatboy helped defined a genre, Justice destroyed one. Fatboy was a master using samples, Justice simply abuses them. People dance to Fatboy, they just jump up and down for Justice (and pray to god their sweaty moptop doesn't knock off their aviators). Fatboy had fans range from underground to pop radio. Justice's fanbase is just an army of 5' Richie Tenenbaums.

[Trick Loves The Kids]

I'm wondering why this is an either/or thing. Justice rocked my face off last year, they'll do it this year too, and I'm sure Fatboy is gonna do the same. Can we all just agree that Enter Shikari sucks and leave it at that?

[full on idle]

never heard of em

[thelastgreatman]

Can't we all just agree that the only songs 98 percent of people have ever heard from Fatboy Slim are Praise You and Rockefeller Skank?

[summerkid]

weapon of choice?

[M Sparks]

My favorites are "Right Here, Right Now", "Gangster Trippin", and "Ya Mama". And I don't own any Fatboy albums, I've just heard those "around".

I can't stand "Praise You".

[orbit]

Better living through chemistry

[thelastgreatman]

weapon of choice?

Okay, valid point. That was so video-driven though.

[jackstraw94086]

Can't we all just agree that the only songs 98 percent of people have ever heard from Fatboy Slim are Praise You and Rockefeller Skank?

Randy know what is what but he don't know what is what he just strut.... What the fuck.

Here's a quarter million people (from one year ago) that may know more than a couple Fatboy tracks.
e8geQU1TTZY

(and I'll add champion sound too)


Point is Fatboy Slim actually has a legitimate greatest hits collection.

[normalone75]

Fatboy si billed lower than justice? Did anyone ever establish this as fact? They will be playing seperate stages. Deal.

[thelastgreatman]

Randy know what is what but he don't know what is what he just strut.... What the fuck.

Here's a quarter million people (from one year ago) that may know more than a couple Fatboy tracks.
e8geQU1TTZY

(and I'll add champion sound too)


Point is Fatboy Slim actually has a legitimate greatest hits collection.


Yes Jack, the 98 percent in question were people who aren't actually INTO electronic music. Sure, if you are, you know a lot of Fatboy Slim songs. But the only reason he's on such a high level of name recognition and admiration is because he was one of the first guys who crossed over--all because Rockefeller Skank was in like 12 movies and 18 commercials. That's the motherfucking truth.

That video is Europe. Do you know how easy it is to get 250,000 people to show up for a massive EDM show on the beach in Europe or South America? Fucking Tiesto did it. It doesn't matter, you just have to have speakers good enough. I guarantee you the crap he plays here sucks--I'm gonna watch it now.

[thelastgreatman]

Yup, absolute crap.

[kreutz2112]

That video made me excited for seeing him at Coachella. Thanks Jack.

[nbvwes]

Can't we all just agree that the only songs 98 percent of people have ever heard from Fatboy Slim are Praise You and Rockefeller Skank?

you're wrong. put on "Gangsta Trippin" and I can guarantee that more than 2% of people would recognize it... (i'm also guessing that YOU'VE only heard of those two songs)

and i'm willing to bet that less than 10% of people could name a SINGLE Justice song unless they're a raver or saw them last year and jumped on the bandwagon (or if they're the kind of person who would read this thread)...

& who the fuck are these idiots that ACTUALLY think the tent will be more packed for Justice than Fatboy??? If for no other reason than the fact that people will say fuck you to Jack Johnson and wander into the sahara looking for something better will have the tent packed! (and the number of people leaving Roger Waters to watch Justice will be minescual in comparison)

[nbvwes]

Fatboy si billed lower than justice? Did anyone ever establish this as fact? They will be playing seperate stages. Deal.

Yes. The poster on the main page of Coachella.com established this as fact.

And if you think that Justice or Fatboy AREN'T going to be in the Sahara, then you're a fucking retard.



Deal.

[Trick Loves The Kids]

That video made me excited for seeing him at Coachella. Thanks Jack.

Dude I am SO hyped. I can't decide if I want him outdoors or in the Sahara.

[jackstraw94086]

Yes Jack, the 98 percent in question were people who aren't actually INTO electronic music. Sure, if you are, you know a lot of Fatboy Slim songs. But the only reason he's on such a high level of name recognition and admiration is because he was one of the first guys who crossed over--all because Rockefeller Skank was in like 12 movies and 18 commercials. That's the motherfucking truth.

That video is Europe. Do you know how easy it is to get 250,000 people to show up for a massive EDM show on the beach in Europe or South America? Fucking Tiesto did it. It doesn't matter, you just have to have speakers good enough. I guarantee you the crap he plays here sucks--I'm gonna watch it now.


Say what you will but the guy is an important figure in EDM. This guy (along with other legends like Dylan Rhymes, Bassbin Twins, and Jack Dangers) was largely responsible for crafting the nuskool breakbeat sound and saving the genre from total destruction at the end of Big Beat by the likes of Crystal Method and Prodigy and Chems (btw I'm not saying I don't like those acts).
You seem to have a problem with him because he sold some poppy tunes along the way.

oh and btw I can't stand the "oh the Europeans are just more into EDM, Americans don't know shit" cop out. That's BS. There's plenty of folks here who know Fatboy Slim and tons of other EDM. LA's a fucking bubble of me me me. People exist outside of it and are aware of what's going on around them.

[thelastgreatman]

Say what you will but the guy is an important figure in EDM. This guy (along with other legends like Dylan Rhymes, Bassbin Twins, and Jack Dangers) was largely responsible for crafting the nuskool breakbeat sound and saving the genre from total destruction at the end of Big Beat by the likes of Crystal Method and Prodigy and Chems (btw I'm not saying I don't like those acts).
You seem to have a problem with him because he sold some poppy tunes along the way.

oh and btw I can't stand the "oh the Europeans are just more into EDM, Americans don't know shit" cop out. That's BS. There's plenty of folks here who know Fatboy Slim and tons of other EDM. LA's a fucking bubble of me me me. People exist outside of it and are aware of what's going on around them.

My only objection to him is that he sucks, that's all. That video you posted sucks. It's boring. And my point wasn't that "American's don't know shit," more than Europeans will show up in droves for ANY garbage pumping through big speakers with enough bass. My evidence being Ibiza.

[jackstraw94086]

My only objection to him is that he sucks, that's all. That video you posted sucks. It's boring. And my point wasn't that "American's don't know shit," more than Europeans will show up in droves for ANY garbage pumping through big speakers with enough bass. My evidence being Ibiza.

Touche regarding Ibiza.

[xbnmx]

Randy struggles with the concept of subjectivity As Tom would say, he is one of those people who (mis)interprets their own opinion as fact. Another great example would be when he sent me a link to what I presume to be a MySpace music profile of his tunes, or rather tune. It appeared in two incarnations. He prefaced it with a dispute between he and a friend as to which version was better and then put me up to listening to them and casting my opinion. I picked the one that his room mate had apparently picked. He told me I can think that all i want, but that I am wrong. Okay.

[thelastgreatman]

I don't struggle with the concept of subjectivity at all, you braindead neo-hippie. You seem to struggle with the fact that the inherent subjectivity of reality is what makes some things right and some things wrong. I could say the sky is water, that wouldn't make me right just because it's subjective.

[Sonicifyouwantit]

I dont think the sky is water falls under subjectivity, more objectivity.

[thelastgreatman]

There is no such thing as objectivity. That's the fucking point.

[xbnmx]

I don't struggle with the concept of subjectivity at all, you braindead neo-hippie. You seem to struggle with the fact that the inherent subjectivity of reality is what makes some things right and some things wrong. I could say the sky is water, that wouldn't make me right just because it's subjective.

You need to follow the advice of the above post and look up the definition of the term subjective and its antonym objective and THEN try and asses who may be having issues in the brain department.

[xbnmx]

There is no such thing as objectivity. That's the fucking point.

You keep digging your self into a deeper hole between your flawed reasoning and your continued, brash usage of ad homonym attacks (read: name calling and profanity). If everything is SUBJECTIVE, as you are positing, then there is no right and wrong, as you say there is. So even if you're claim is true, you are still WRONG in your assertion hat we are WRONG. But your claim IS NOT TRUE as we have empirical sciences that yield OBJECTIVITY.

P.S. Which musical tracks sound better is not empirically discernible.

[jackstraw94086]

This thread reeks of ethnic penis.

[thelastgreatman]

No, you need to educate yourself. Go out and study some philosophy and learn a little bit about the fact that you cannot claim anything in our lives to be objective.

While you're picking up some Descartes, buy a dictionary too and look up the word "assess."

[thelastgreatman]

No, the fact that everything is subjective makes it perfectly easy for me to say that you are wrong. This is my reality. Not yours. In my reality, you are wrong. Get it now? In your reality, you can think whatever you want. Won't change the fact that you're still wrong in my reality. It's called solipsism, read a fucking book, hippie.

[xbnmx]

You have gradually shredded any credibility you have had. Your incessant name calling and complete inability to grasp the fact that other people have opinions leads people to disregard anything you have to say.

Edited for personal slams.

[jackstraw94086]

Randy,
If Descartes had known you he would have had no problem at all reconciling the existence of other minds. The notion of you being a product of his own would have been too difficult to bear.

[thelastgreatman]

I stopped reading philosophy when I was 20, eight years was enough. My incessant name calling is directly related to you being a dumb bag of shit. And your inability to grasp the fact that I KNOW OTHER PEOPLE HAVE OPINIONS and that is exactly HOW I AM ABLE TO SAY YOU ARE WRONG is how I know that you have studied exactly dick.

[xbnmx]

Also, Descartes is the KING of deontology, absolutely binding guidelines for moral behavior; guidelines for moral behavior is a concept completely incompatible with solipsism. Just saying.

[thelastgreatman]

Randy,
If Descartes had known you he would have had no problem at all reconciling the existence of other minds. The notion of you being a product of his own would have been too difficult to bear.

I am Descartes dream come to life. I am also the Ubermensch.

[Trick Loves The Kids]

you nerds really know how to suck the fun out of music

[thelastgreatman]

Also, Descartes is the KING of deontology, absolutely binding guidelines for moral behavior; guidelines for moral behavior is a concept completely incompatible with solipsism. Just saying.

Wait wait wait, you're telling me that Descartes' theories are completely incompatible with his most famous theory?

[jackstraw94086]

This existence of this thread can be proven anthropically by virtue of my knowledge of how much it sucks.

[kreutz2112]

you nerds really know how to suck the fun out of music

hahaha

[thelastgreatman]

Fatboy Slim fans know how to suck a lot of things out of a lot of things.

[xbnmx]

That reeks so badly of a complete lack of post-secondary education and, according to the authority, ethnic penis, that we can move on.

Bottom line is that the consensus is in. Most people who participated in this thread feel that Fatboy Slim, based upon style, portfolio, and progressive influence upon the genre deserves to be billed over Daft Punk's record bag boys.

[thelastgreatman]

Right, except that one is the hottest act in EDM right now, and the other was one of the hottest acts in 1999.

[xbnmx]

Justice is only hot with indie scensters, the actual EDM community is only giving them a luke warm response. But you being, as you professed your self, only mildly into the EDM scene wouldn't know that.

[kreutz2112]

Randy, Justice is shit. They are not the hottest thing in EDM. You are out of your element.

[thelastgreatman]

I never said Justice is GOOD. I said they are the hottest thing in EDM right now, and they are. Going from Coach last year to this year, they are the fastest-rising sensation anywhere in the genre. Fucking prove me wrong.

[xbnmx]

Let the consensus continue.

[thelastgreatman]

We're talking about who gets higher billing, not who's better, you fucking twats. Why is Jack Johnson a headliner? Look at his fucking album sales. Why is Justice higher than Fatboy? SAME SHIT.

[thelastgreatman]

Justice is only hot with indie scensters, the actual EDM community is only giving them a luke warm response. But you being, as you professed your self, only mildly into the EDM scene wouldn't know that.

Oh, and as someone who claimed that Fatboy is better than Underworld, your opinion is worth exactly SHITE. And anyone with any credibility will agree with that. Jack?

[xbnmx]

I never said Justice is GOOD. I said they are the hottest thing in EDM right now, and they are. Going from Coach last year to this year, they are the fastest-rising sensation anywhere in the genre. Fucking prove me wrong.

We are proving you wrong via a poll of sorts. All of the board members heavily into the EDM scene are tell you: they are not the hottest thing int he EDM scene as dictated by a poll of the EDM scene.

[Trick Loves The Kids]

Here's a paragraph about Justice vs. Fatboy Slim, with references to Socratic theory,

[xbnmx]

Randy a difference in opinion between Jack and I doesn't merit a loss of credibility like your complete inability to grasp the concept of a difference of opinion does. Good lord, you love pissing contests.

[thelastgreatman]

I don't think five board members constitute a consensus of the EDM industry.

[kreutz2112]

We're talking about who gets higher billing, not who's better, you fucking twats. Why is Jack Johnson a headliner? Look at his fucking album sales. Why is Justice higher than Fatboy? SAME SHIT.

From Billboard:

JUSTICE:

The Paris-based duo, Xavier de Rosnay and Gaspart Auge, received a number of Grammy nods this year, including best electronic/dance album and best dance recording for single "D.A.N.C.E." Justice's full-length album, "†" (aka "Cross"), debuted at No. 1 on the Top Electronic Albums chart in July, and has sold 39,000 copies in the United States, according to Nielsen SoundScan.

You've come a long way, baby went platinum in the U.S. I did not look up his other records.

[thelastgreatman]

Randy a difference in opinion between Jack and I doesn't merit a loss of credibility like your complete inability to grasp the concept of a difference of opinion does. Good lord, you love pissing contests.

LISTEN YOU DUMB FUCK. A difference of opinion is exactly what's being discussed here. EVERYTHING is a different of opinion. YOU are the one who cannot grasp it.

[xbnmx]

My final comment is going to be that some of those five work in the EDM industry.

[thelastgreatman]

From Billboard:

JUSTICE:



You've come a long way, baby went platinum in the U.S. I did not look up his other records.

Right, like I said--we're talking about TODAY. What's the hottest thing TODAY.

[xbnmx]

From Billboard:

JUSTICE:



You've come a long way, baby went platinum in the U.S. I did not look up his other records.

These are empirical facts according to the rules of your own argument Randy, pay close attention.

[thelastgreatman]

No they're not. Look up the word "empirical." Jesus Christ, this is just annoying. Why am I arguing with some hippie who looks like he's sixteen and doesn't know the meanings of half the terms of the argument?

[xbnmx]

Right, like I said--we're talking about TODAY. What's the hottest thing TODAY.

Err, Roger Waters is headlining. When was the last time he put out an album?

[xbnmx]

A central concept in science and the scientific method is that all evidence must be empirical, or empirically based, that is, dependent on evidence or consequences that are observable by the senses. Empirical data is data that is produced by experiment or observation.[1] It is usually differentiated from the philosophic usage of empiricism by the use of the adjective "empirical" or the adverb "empirically." "Empirical" as an adjective or adverb is used in conjunction with both the natural and social sciences, and refers to the use of working hypotheses that are testable using observation or experiment. In this sense of the word, scientific statements are subject to and derived from our experiences or observations.

I am pretty sure that the number of physical copies of an album sold is empirically verifiable.

[kreutz2112]

Right, like I said--we're talking about TODAY. What's the hottest thing TODAY.

In that case Justice should be billed higher than Roger Waters, christ DSOTM was released 35 years ago.

[kreutz2112]

Err, Roger Waters is headlining. When was the last time he put out an album?

haha, you took the words right out of my mouth.

[thelastgreatman]

Yeah, and how big was his tour last year?

[thelastgreatman]

How many records did Fatboy sell last year?

[xbnmx]

Yeah, and how big was his tour last year?

Fatboy Slim played a show to 250,000 people last year.

[thelastgreatman]

It was a free show.

[kreutz2112]

In 2006 Fatboy Slims greatest hits comp. Why Try Harder reached #2 in the UK

[thelastgreatman]

And the US?

[full on idle]

Thread's a-making me laugh. Somebody's getting schooled. No hate.

ps
Here's a paragraph about Justice vs. Fatboy Slim, with references to Socratic theory,
hahhahahahaha

[kreutz2112]

It peaked at #6 in the U.S. on the electronic charts.

still looking for album sales info.

[xbnmx]

A good first step toward an attempt to redeem your reputation might be to at least recognize the litany of examples arguments your lone gunmen claim Randy.

[thelastgreatman]

No, this is ridiculous. First of all, a greatest hits album doesn't exactly count. Because the point is that one was the biggest breakout act of the genre last year and one is a throwback to popularity a decade old.

[malcolmjamalawesome]

is lastgreatman getting gangraped? Let me know when it's bukkake time.

[thelastgreatman]

is lastgreatman getting gangraped? Let me know when it's bukkake time.

Don't try to shove your face in front of mine like you always do when it's time for the shower.

[kreutz2112]

Air had a pretty big year in 06/07 should they have been billed over Rage Against The Machine, a band who had not released an album in 7 years?

[thelastgreatman]

Air had a big year? Really? I don't recall hearing anyone going nuts over their new album.

[kreutz2112]

They had a bigger year as far as album sales and playing shows go when compared to RATM.

[thelastgreatman]

They had a bigger year as far as album sales and playing shows go when compared to RATM.

I sincerely doubt that Air played to more people last year than RATM, even if you allowed Air to count two shows for every one RATM show.

[malcolmjamalawesome]

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/7082/e8wrjlrz0.jpg

[jackstraw94086]

that is my favorite fail gif ever.

[malcolmjamalawesome]

This thread is rampant failing.

[daftfan]

I respect the fact that you are in support of Fatboy Slim! We have short memories if we think that Justice have achieved the same level and quantity of work as he as! Norman Cook has been around since the 80's! But Justice did help electronic music along in the U.S in a major way last year! So hats off! I've just listened to a Coachella anthem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILMMfFRAtyw
Any idea who it's by? the rumor is Daft Punk, but the video also features Fatboy Slim clips!

[malcolmjamalawesome]

Refocusing burns ...

[jackstraw94086]

But Justice did help electronic music along in the U.S in a major way last year!


Now that's the most subjective opinion expressed thus far in this thread.

No wait. I mean objective. Completely objective. And patently false.

[xbnmx]

http://files.samhart.net/humor/fail.jpg

[MarkO]

........ Europeans will show up in droves for ANY garbage pumping through big speakers with enough bass. My evidence being Ibiza.

You know this from having been to Ibiza, right ?

Right ?

[xbnmx]

We both know that the answer is no.

[jackstraw94086]

To be fair I think he's referring more to the Ibiza aesthetic. There is of course some great music played there, but the main association people draw is an obnoxious one. It's where you go to party. If it's purely great music you want to year, there are far far better spots in Europe. Ibiza isn't where you're going.

[xbnmx]

Ibiza is a great party with some good music. Expensive though.

[emtgreg]

ibiza is great for spanish girls and the occasional porkchop...

and by great, i mean "filled with insanely hot and crazy high and drunk"

[orbit]

Ibiza is great if you want a picture of Judge Jules, Erik Morillo and Pete Tong posing for dj mag.

[orbit]

His Beat up the NME mix was really nice. I hope he plays most classic stuff and not some kind of 'Put your hands up for Coachella' all the time.

[xbnmx]

He is like the Stanton Warriors father.

[kingsblend420]

First off all, for clarification--I'm GORGEOUS. Let's get that fucking straight.

whcUdCkjd_k'

hahahahaha

[Trick Loves The Kids]

what could possibly have inspired you to up that video to youtube

[thelastgreatman]

I happen to think it's funny. Also, I like how the inside of my Jewnose looks.

[rage patton]

I never said Justice is GOOD. I said they are the hottest thing in EDM right now, and they are. Going from Coach last year to this year, they are the fastest-rising sensation anywhere in the genre. Fucking prove me wrong.

He is 100% right. Whether you love or hate Justice, this is true.

[kreutz2112]

Damn it Rage.

Randy are going to concede and recognize that Fatboy should be billed higher than Justice?

[thelastgreatman]

No. Not remotely. First of all, because after you see what they have planned for Justice you're going to understand, but second of all because Fatboy has always sucked. New suck is still better than old suck.

[rage patton]

I just totally realized that was from 2 pages ago. Whoops.

Anyways, while I agree Justice are the biggest thing in EDM right now... it doesn't mean they are neccessarily bigger then Fatboy Slim. EVERYONE knows Fatboy Slim. In the EDM scene, I guess you could call it, Justice are difinately the biggest thing happening right now. But on a grand scale, more people are familiar with Fatboy Slim. Therefore, I definately think Fatboy Slim should be billed higher then Justice.
In fact, I think unless a major EDM headliner is anounced (Underworld, Chemical Bros, The Prodigy) then Fatboy Slim should be bumped up to sub-headliner status. But thats just me.

[fatbastard]

I'm looking forward to the new and old suck.

[thelastgreatman]

Sure, more people know the name Fatboy Slim. The question is what do more of Coachella's target audience want to see--a set by the guy who was a huge name 10 years ago and we haven't really heard dick from since, or the act that's been talked up and up and up way beyond how good they actually are for the past year and a half?

[rage patton]

I think Coachellas target audience also would rather not see Jack Johnson headlining.

[kreutz2112]

True, it is a good business move and may sell more tickets. However, you cannot deny that Fatboy has played a far more significant role in shaping EDM into what it is today and deserves respect.

[Trick Loves The Kids]

read the last three posts and then close this thread forever

this post is not included

[BlackSwan]

I am Descartes dream come to life. I am also the Ubermensch.

You sound like the Kanye West of philosophy. I can't believe people still have serious debates with you. Daft Punk and Fatboy Slim are the shiet and you sir supremely, suck new and old.

[thelastgreatman]

I think Coachellas target audience also would rather not see Jack Johnson headlining.

Sadly, you're kinda wrong about that.

True, it is a good business move and may sell more tickets. However, you cannot deny that Fatboy has played a far more significant role in shaping EDM into what it is today and deserves respect.

I never said that Justice has played a bigger role in EDM, did I? It would be a preposterous argument. But if I was GV, and I was bringing back Justice for a second year in a row because they had such an insanely popular year starting with their first ever live performance at last year's Coachella versus bringing back Fatboy fucking Slim who, frankly, nobody in America has been thinking about for at least five years... well, the choice seems pretty easy.

[kreutz2112]

You did not say Justice played any role in making EDM what it is. I was just saying that Fatboy Slim is a veteran electronic musician that commands respect. You are avoiding my question. Does Fatboy Slim deserve to be billed higher than Justice regardless of whatever GV's motive for doing things the way they did is?

[full on idle]

LW you always switch your argument around, you're slippery.

[kingsblend420]

Sadly, you're kinda wrong about that.



I never said that Justice has played a bigger role in EDM, did I? It would be a preposterous argument. But if I was GV, and I was bringing back Justice for a second year in a row because they had such an insanely popular year starting with their first ever live performance at last year's Coachella versus bringing back Fatboy fucking Slim who, frankly, nobody in America has been thinking about for at least five years... well, the choice seems pretty easy.


The same arguments were being made about daft punk 2 years ago. And look where we are now..........

[boarderwoozel3]

The same arguments were being made about daft punk 2 years ago. And look where we are now..........

Good point.

This argument has been a fascinating read. At least the argument has come back from a word choice analysis, dick measuring contest. Noam Chomsky would have loved a couple pages back though.

[summerkid]

seriously, they probably would have been brought up in that had it but lost it thread.

[thelastgreatman]

The same arguments were being made about daft punk 2 years ago. And look where we are now..........

Daft Punk hadn't performed in seven years. I've seen clips of Fatboy from just last year in this thread, and he ain't no fucking Daft Punk. It's crap.

[kreutz2112]

Are you going to answer my question?

[boarderwoozel3]

seriously, they probably would have been brought up in that had it but lost it thread.

lolz

[Gyrus]

Daft Punk hadn't performed in seven years. I've seen clips of Fatboy from just last year in this thread, and he ain't no fucking Daft Punk. It's crap.

Daft punk was the greatest live show on earth.
Fatboy slim.... well he's ok, the thing about norman cook is that every once in a while he just comes out with a fucking pearler of a tune, i.e. star 69, i.e his alter ego of mighty dub katz - let the drums speak. You just never know what he'll pull out. Maybe we havent heard of him in fuckin ages because he's been in the studio cookin up goodness, or just lying around fucking his wife zoe, we shall soon find out!

[thelastgreatman]

Are you going to answer my question?

I assume you're referring to "Does Fatboy Slim deserve to be billed higher than Justice regardless of whatever GV's motive for doing things the way they did is?"

Okay, I'm going to make a couple quick (read: actually quite lengthy) points here and then I think we should let this conversation die because it was a horrible, horrible thing.

1. "Justice is billed higher." This statement alone is, while kinda true, also kinda misleading. In the poster that combines all three days into one Justice just barely made the cut for the line above Fatboy. Both are headlining their respective nights in the Sahara tent, and both have the exact same placement on the day-by-day breakdown poster.

In cramming the entire lineup into a one-sheet the graphic designers had to make a lot of difficult choices of where to place each act for so many reasons: which are the biggest draws ticket-wise; which deserve the higher spot for their legacy or artistic merit; and also just shit like what names will fit on each line, aesthetics and the such, etc. My point being...

2. Everyone is making WAY too big of a deal out of the significance of bands' names placement on this one-sheet. Fatboy isn't playing before Justice. They're both the dance headliners for their nights. Justice is actually billed higher than Danny Tenaglia on their day--a man who, although I'm not really that big of a fan (except for Elements, which is funny) has been a legend largely in the NY scene since the early 90s too. You could pull a big "this is bullshit, they've only had one album when Tenaglia has been around for blah blah blah" argument there too (granted--Danny is nowhere near as popular as Fatboy Slim, I'm not ignoring that). But the thing is, while a lopsided analogy, I think the point stands the same:

3. The real question is: which act is the more exciting and eye-catching on a Coachella 2008 poster? You can't discount where Coachella is taking place, the crowd it usually draws, or the year. These are all essential parts of what makes one name a bigger attraction for potential Coachella-goers than the other. And the fact is that in So Cal, in 2008, Justice is the more exciting name to see on that poster.

Even for me, and I don't like the motherfuckers. I don't like Fatboy either, although if I had to choose one, honestly I think I'd rather see Justice, especially if we're taking into account knowing that the Alive 2007 crew is designing the stage show. I fucking HATE the D.A.N.C.E. and We Are Your Friends shit, it's garbage (again, so's everything Fatboy did), but the fact is that Daft Punk revolutionized the draw of the Sahara Tent in 06 and Ed Banger has taken it over. You can bitch and complain if you want, but it's what the people (tasteless swine that they are) want.

Since Coachella, Justice has been touring non-stop, building up this HUGE buzz in the U.S. Sure people can name Fatboy Slim--because he had popular videos in the 90s, which is the same reason people knew Daft Punk, or Moby, etc. even if they never set foot in a club. But there's no fucking way to even see a music video anymore, so if you're an EDM act today and you're making a name in the U.S. it's because you're out there playing shows and people are loving it. Sure as fuck ain't getting radio play in the age of Clear Channel.

Fatboy may be a legend. I still think he's made pretty much nothing but garbage, but fine, I'll say he's a legend, and that he's contributed a great deal to helping expose more people to EDM. But I also think Spike Jonze is probably responsible for at least 40 percent of the credit of his name recognition, and at the end of the day I think Justice despite all their flaws and all my gripes with them are a more important act right now.

If Justice is a flash in the pan and next year nobody's talking about them anymore it will definitely have been a blunder. But for right now? Yes, Justice should be billed higher than Fatboy.

I mean, fuck, if for no other reason than just how much they pissed Kanye off. That shit was hilarious.

[kreutz2112]

Ok, point made and taken. This: but it's what the people (tasteless swine that they are) want. was fucking hilarious.

[thelastgreatman]

That's all I'm saying, dude. Look, we'd ALL like to change the order of the lineup for every day based on who actually deserves to be billed higher, but that shit isn't reality. Reality is the Sahara crowd this year is gonna prefer Justice to Fatboy 5:1 and Jack Johnson sells a shitload of both albums and tickets. Reality's a motherfucker. Let's just hope that Justice takes advantages of the Daft crew production and really steps up their game to the level they're being billed at. It's not impossible. As much as I hate their shit, I'm not ruling out that after a year of constant touring they might have matured and come up with some shit that could be close to another Daft, who knows? For fuck's sake, without 70's music to blatantly steal from Daft probably wouldn't even have existed as one of those "everybody knows this electronic act because of their music videos" artists, and therefore wouldn't have come back to blow our mind with a brilliant layering of their thievery. To my knowledge Justice's generic bullshit is for the most part not blatant samples, is it? Maybe they'll fucking own, who knows?

Those Brighton Beach clips are still utter garbage.

[rage patton]

Where did it say the people who worked on Alive 2007 are working on a new stage show for Justice? I know Busy P said Justie are going to have a new set up, but did I miss the part where he said the Alive 2007 people are working on it?

[thelastgreatman]

Where did it say the people who worked on Alive 2007 are working on a new stage show for Justice? I know Busy P said Justie are going to have a new set up, but did I miss the part where he said the Alive 2007 people are working on it?

I forget where I came across that piece of info. I'm pretty positive it wasn't just a drug hallucination though, like 98%.

[beatboy]

hey thelastgreatman, we know that you hate fatboy slim, ok so shut tha fuck man, and fatboy slim is gonna be fucking in coachella.

[thelastgreatman]

... adults are talking, boy. Do that cute little thing you do--go to bed.

[Cdubby]

I forget where I came across that piece of info. I'm pretty positive it wasn't just a drug hallucination though, like 98%.

this information is in my brain as well, not sure where from.

[thelastgreatman]

Did Paul say it during the press conference? Well, in any event, I'm pretty positive I've heard it confirmed but can't go into details on how.

Frankly, as much as I think they suck I'm really glad Waters won't be conflicting with Justice, because I don't see any reason that if Justice has another album's worth of material by April and the Alive 2007 production team working with them... why shouldn't they be able to turn out something at least half as good as the pyramid? I still maintain outside of the Alive 2007 set, Daft's music ain't that great, and it ain't much different from Cross (except all the fucking awesome samples Daft stole from 70s soul acts). If their sophomore effort improves on Cross as much as I would hope it could and should and they make a concept performance out of it with the Daft team, there's nothing holding it back from hitting that absurd level of awesomeness too.

Well, except the lack of robot helmets. Those boys need to get some costumes and stat, 'cause French hipster heads bobbing on giant video screens aren't cool. They just make you remember you should probably shower more frequently.

[gratytrainridesagain]

Wait I thought you are one of those that hates Justice? Yeah, considering how big Justice got I don't see them conflicting with Waters i.e. PVD and Faithless last year.

[Cdubby]

They should wear some cool fucking bear suits, or clown costumes, something ace.

[gratytrainridesagain]

I could see it being something really unoriginal like a giant led cross that hangs above then moves over the crowd slightly.

wait that might not be too bad (if it moves)

[kreutz2112]

Frankly, as much as I think they suck I'm really glad Waters won't be conflicting with Justice

Why don't you think they'll conflict?

I could see it being something really unoriginal like a giant led cross that hangs above then moves over the crowd slightly.

wait that might not be too bad (if it moves)

That would suck. Bad.

[thelastgreatman]

I could think of a LOT of cool shit to do with a cross made of video screens the size of the pyramid. Still won't compare to the show I've got planned for the Sahara in 2011, but it could be very cool.

And Kreutz, they just won't conflict. Don't ask why's and how's. They won't. Be surprised if anyone conflicts with Waters at all.

[nbvwes]

daft punk > fatboy slim > justice

there. it's done. get over it


if you don't believe me, then let's just see how hard it'll be trying to get into the tent when fatboy slim's spinning compared to justice...

[rage patton]

I fucking HATE the D.A.N.C.E. and We Are Your Friends shit, it's garbage...

I mean, fuck, if for no other reason than just how much they pissed Kanye off. That shit was hilarious.

Are DANCE and We Are Your Friends the only Justice songs you have ever heard? They have much better tracks then those. Check out Gensis, Let There Be Light and Waters of Nazareth. Totally different songs from DANCE and We Are Your Friends.
And yes, that Kanye video is classic.

Also, I wonder if Justice will be bringing thier new set with them on their March US tour. I really hope so. If not, then I will have to see Justice at Coachella.

[thelastgreatman]

I've listened to their album. I actually had it playing for a couple weeks straight during the couple of months that I couldn't stop listening to Daft, so I tried to switch off for a little while with some other mostly-gay French house. There's three decent tracks on the album. But shit like D.A.N.C.E. is SO fucking annoying. And that We Are Your Friends has become anthemic makes it 10 times more annoying. Fuck a bunch of feel-good dance music, that's why I'm making evil dance music.

[thelastgreatman]

daft punk > fatboy slim > justice

there. it's done. get over it


if you don't believe me, then let's just see how hard it'll be trying to get into the tent when fatboy slim's spinning compared to justice...

I bet you 1000 dollars that the crowd is bigger for Justice.

[jackstraw94086]

I bet you 1000 dollars that the crowd is bigger for Justice.

People on this board tend to develop a very narrow, indiecentric view of what is popular. I'm not saying you're guaranteed wrong here, but just try and remember that.

[thelastgreatman]

I wasn't basing that on a narrow view, but remember how many people flooded to Daft because the headliner ended before them? Expect that.

[Blintz]

However, you cannot deny that Fatboy has played a far more significant role in shaping EDM into what it is today and deserves respect.

NO- that's totally wrong. He definitely did a lot to turn EDM into background music for frat parties... lots of chill funk samples, etc. But I deny that Fatboy has had much of an impact on EDM- by the time he became popular in 1997, The Fat of the Land (Prodigy), Vegas (Crystal Method), and Dig Your Own Hole (Chem Bros.) had just hit the mainstream and were extremely influential. Fatboy Slim had some cool beats but was more of a throwback to feel good dance music: Eurodance, Kylie Minogue- that sort of stuff. I really don't see why Sasha & Digweed or Danny Tenaglia aren't billed above them: they're both better and more respected than Fatboy Slim and S&D have/had bigger name recognition.

[xbnmx]

You have no clue what you are talking about. The albums you mentioned marked the end of the big beat era while Fatboy Slim ushered in nubreaks.

[Blintz]

You have no clue what you are talking about. The albums you mentioned marked the end of the big beat era while Fatboy Slim ushered in nubreaks.

WTF Fatboy Slim didn't usher anything in. I will say he had this sort of timeless brand of feel-good funky dance music, but he wasn't influential at all. Read some magazines... As for nu/progressive breaks that was pretty much just codifying what trance producers had already been doing (Northern Exposure, etc.). Besides, the movers and shakers there were guys like Adam Freeland and Hybrid, not Fatboy Slim.

[thelastgreatman]

Blintz, how old are you? I'm throwing my weight behind you in this dispute if you're older than him, which you almost have to be.

[Sonicifyouwantit]

Look im just glad gabriel and dresden are not playing.

[dubvulture]

Where did it say the people who worked on Alive 2007 are working on a new stage show for Justice? I know Busy P said Justie are going to have a new set up, but did I miss the part where he said the Alive 2007 people are working on it?

That would be me. The sound engineer comes into the store I manage from time to time.

[rage patton]

I wasn't basing that on a narrow view, but remember how many people flooded to Daft because the headliner ended before them? Expect that.

Are you suggesting Justice are going to play the Sahara after Roger Waters?

[nbvwes]

I bet you 1000 dollars that the crowd is bigger for Justice.

hmm... i'll take you up on that... myspace is having Justice play L.A. right before Coach & Fatboy Slim hasn't played SoCal in years... (besides the obvious conflicts helping Fatboy have a fatter crowd)

but remember how many people flooded to Daft because the headliner ended before them? Expect that.

Daft playing the main right after the headliner is NOT the same thing as Justice playing the sahara during or before Roger Waters... and the chance of Justice playing anywhere else but the sahara is 0%.

[instinct]

the more i think about Justice being billed over Fatboy.. the more pissed off I get. Lol, I know it's so childish, but fuck the hype is killing AMERICA!!

[instinct]

I bet you 1000 dollars that the crowd is bigger for Justice.

oh man.. i really REALLY doubt that..