Schoolio's Movie Corner

[RotationSlimWang]

Just to clarify, by female filmmaker, you mean you're in porn, right?






Aw, is that a FACE-ial I just saw? I think it was.

[Mr.Nipples]

You know there are no good female filmmakers, right? =)

go rent near dark...

[RotationSlimWang]

Made by a chick? No thanks.

[Neutral Milk Hotel]

40 Year Old Virgin was hilarious. Knocked up was OK the 1st time, then it sucks the 2nd. I'm looking forward to Walk Hard though.

Walk Hard looks tired to me, though the cameos will probably be amusing. I really liked Knocked Up, and The 40-Year-Old Virgin is good too.

[kitt kat]

You know there are no good female filmmakers, right? =)

Tell that to Sofia's oscar.

[RotationSlimWang]

The Oscars are a fucking joke.

[rage patton]

kitt kat... have you seen Knocked Up or Superbad?

My girlfriend couldnt even watch the 40 Year Old Virgin. She basicaly thought the same thing about it as you do.

However, I convinced her to see Knocked Up... and she LOVED it. She almost couldnt believe it was written/directed by the same guy. We then went and saw Superbad and we both thought that was great as well. We are both looking forward to Walk Hard. Mainly for the cameos though...

[kitt kat]

i have. i don't get the hype behind it. there's a million other comedies that are funnier that don't resort to woman bashing, masturbation jokes, and sex.

i'm no prude, trust me.

but i've always been of the school of thought that believes resorting to sex, cussing, dirty jokes, bathroom jokes, etc. in a screenplay is a sign of an underlying lack of talent. simply put---those who use those things cannot think of how to phrase things in a way it would be intellectually/truly/affectingly humorous.

compare something like superbad to the apartment.

hmm. now, i don't think people will still be referencing superbad in 40 years like they do the apartment.

i know it's a matter of personal taste, but the personal taste of the american public has really gone downhill when they label judd apatow as a 'cinematic genius.'

[RotationSlimWang]

but i've always been of the school of thought that believes resorting to sex, cussing, dirty jokes, bathroom jokes, etc. in a screenplay is a sign of an underlying lack of talent. simply put---those who use those things cannot think of how to phrase things in a way it would be intellectually/truly/affectingly humorous.

Oh, how I do enjoy the comedic insights of high-school girls. A Jack Lemmon flick, seriously? Someone get this girl some puberty and a dick already, STAT.

[menikmati]

but i've always been of the school of thought that believes resorting to sex, cussing, dirty jokes, bathroom jokes, etc. in a screenplay is a sign of an underlying lack of talent. simply put---those who use those things cannot think of how to phrase things in a way it would be intellectually/truly/affectingly humorous.

I agree on this. I honestly can't stand bathroom humor, or crude dirty/sexist jokes, or tons of cussing. Trust me, I took a couple screenwriting classes, and about 95% of the students in there thought it was so cool and funny to start throwing in all the cuss words they could think of (and I also wonder why all those film students were addicted to those dumbfuck zombie/vampire stories too...lame).

[RotationSlimWang]

You two should get together and discuss which Bill Cosby bits are the funniest.



EDIT: FACE. Oh, wait, that's not a curse. FUCK.

FACEFUCK.

[Hannahrain]

I liked the one where he wore a sweater.

[menikmati]

I actually made it an effort on all my scripts to not use any cuss words or crude jokes (if it was a story that called for that kinda stuff).

[RotationSlimWang]

How much like real life that script must have been. =)

[Neutral Milk Hotel]

I liked the one where he wore a sweater.

I liked the one where he wore a different sweater from the one Hannah is talking about.

[menikmati]

How much like real life that script must have been. =)

Well see, I know that would people's reaction...but I gotta tell you....after taking those 2 courses in screenwriting, and reading TONS and TONS of other kids scripts (both short stories and first acts), I got so tired of people throwing in the random "fuck" or "shit", or some joke about balls or dicks or crude names for whatever....it just got so stupid (and the worst was that we had to normally read these scripts out loud and assign parts - which made it worse because all the people in the class thought it was so funny to play a tourette character shouting "fuck your mother" in random moments).

So I made an effort just so I wouldn't be part of that crowd, not caring if others or the teacher felt if wasn't real life enough or whatever. But I also made it my effort to never write some sort of zombie flick...which is about what 90% of the scripts were about. Seriously, zombies suck, zombie films suck...everything zombie sucks...try something new.

[rage patton]

You two should get together and discuss which Bill Cosby bits are the funniest.



EDIT: FACE. Oh, wait, that's not a curse. FUCK.

FACEFUCK.

I like how you said "facefuck" instead of "fuckface."

Seriously.

It made me laugh.

Randy does have a point though. People cuss like the dickens in real life. Why should it be any different in movies?
What I like about Judd Apatow movie is that they resemble real life SO closely. Like, you can actually imagine what is going on in the movie ACTUALLY happening. And you know a version of each character is real life. I dunno. Thats why I like his movies anyways.

[RotationSlimWang]

Dude, believe me, I actually do know what you're referring to. And yes, you're right, a great deal of scripts--particularly back when I was still taking classes--were bogged down with that. But that doesn't necessarily mean we should all be Paula Poundstone either.

[Neutral Milk Hotel]

Tell that to Sofia's oscar.

Are you really citing Lost in Translation, with the egregious walking stereotype that is the Anna Faris character?

[RotationSlimWang]

Are you really citing Lost in Translation, with the egregious walking stereotype that is the Anna Faris character?

That character's actually supposed to be Cameron Diaz. And that bit of trivia is the only thing that's remotely funny about that fucking movie.

[menikmati]

Hey Menik, What are your top 5 favorite movies of all time?

I don't think that list has ever been published here.

[roberto73]

i have. i don't get the hype behind it. there's a million other comedies that are funnier that don't resort to woman bashing, masturbation jokes, and sex.

i'm no prude, trust me.

but i've always been of the school of thought that believes resorting to sex, cussing, dirty jokes, bathroom jokes, etc. in a screenplay is a sign of an underlying lack of talent. simply put---those who use those things cannot think of how to phrase things in a way it would be intellectually/truly/affectingly humorous.

compare something like superbad to the apartment.

hmm. now, i don't think people will still be referencing superbad in 40 years like they do the apartment.

i know it's a matter of personal taste, but the personal taste of the american public has really gone downhill when they label judd apatow as a 'cinematic genius.'

What's the basis of the comparison? That they're both comedies? I guess, but the last time I checked, The Apartment wasn't about Jack Lemmon trying to get laid at a high school party (although that would be a funny movie, especially now). You might as well have suggested it be compared to Ernest Goes to Jail.

Bad language, sexual references, etc., are signs of no talent ... when they're done poorly. When they're done well, they can achieve the same poetry as more sophisticated devices. Go watch Glengarry Glen Ross, and then we can have a conversation about the supposed dearth of talent represented by profanity.

I wouldn't call Apatow a cinematic genius, either, but I think the mistake you're making is you're tarring all comedies with the same brush. Apatow's movies aren't Annie Hall, or Whit Stillman's Metropolitan, or Some Like it Hot. And – here's the important thing – they're not trying to be. His movies capture the language of a specific group, a group that talks and acts in a way that – your delicate sensibilities aside – rings true to me. You might not like the method, but it's a bullshit argument to claim all comedies should aspire to do things in the same way. Would the characters in a teen sex comedy really talk like the characters in The Apartment? Really?

[Neutral Milk Hotel]

That character's actually supposed to be Cameron Diaz. And that bit of trivia is the only thing that's remotely funny about that fucking movie.

Yeah I know. I really enjoyed that movie the first time I saw it but I rewatched it recently and thought it was kind of shitty if true (the Cameron Diaz thing), which made it harder to enjoy the movie. Bill Murray still deserved an Oscar though.

[wmgaretjax]

for the most part, I hate comedies.

i think judd apatow is incredibly over-rated. I'm not sure I would get as silly to say he's a woman hater or any of that shit, but his jokes are tired.

Sofia Coppola is a hack too.

Maya Deren is a good female director. So is Catherine Breillat. So is Jane Campion. As is Lynne Ramsey. John Waters?

[RotationSlimWang]

Even as a woman John Waters would be a shitty filmmaker. That's incredible.

[Hannahrain]

Laughing fucking sucks. I'm brooding and disturbed, for chrissakes. I can't LAUGH.

[Hannahrain]

I mean, really. What exactly do you think we're playing at here?

[RotationSlimWang]

Laughing fucking sucks. I'm brooding and disturbed, for chrissakes. I can't LAUGH.

For the most part, I hate FACEdies. But this one... this one I like.

[wmgaretjax]

Even as a woman John Waters would be a shitty filmmaker. That's incredible.

Have you seen Ratcatcher by Lynne Ramsey Randy? Ramsey also has a short film on Cinema16's British Short Film disc about a boy who gets trapped in an old refrigerator that is fucking devastating.

You should check out Ratcatcher though...

[RotationSlimWang]

Can't say as I have. Maybe I will someday. But on the other, I hate almost everything you like, Jared. I'm not sure we can recommend things to each other anymore. =)

[Hannahrain]

No Randy, he's right. Comedy is no laughing matter.

[wmgaretjax]

i will keep trying.

I'm watching Primer. For a cheap fucking film, it's pretty cool.

[RotationSlimWang]

"I only laugh at movies about young boys trapped in refrigerators."

[schoolofruckus]

Yeah I know. I really enjoyed that movie the first time I saw it but I rewatched it recently and thought it was kind of shitty if true (the Cameron Diaz thing), which made it harder to enjoy the movie. Bill Murray still deserved an Oscar though.

The Cameron Diaz thing is based on Sofia's jealousy because her former husband - Spike "Fuck You Pot, I'm Not Releasing Where The Wild Things Are Until 10/08" Jonze - had a thing for Diaz when shooting "Being John Malkovich".

Faris fucking nailed her to the wall, too.

[schoolofruckus]

What's the basis of the comparison? That they're both comedies? I guess, but the last time I checked, The Apartment wasn't about Jack Lemmon trying to get laid at a high school party (although that would be a funny movie, especially now). You might as well have suggested it be compared to Ernest Goes to Jail.

Bad language, sexual references, etc., are signs of no talent ... when they're done poorly. When they're done well, they can achieve the same poetry as more sophisticated devices. Go watch Glengarry Glen Ross, and then we can have a conversation about the supposed dearth of talent represented by profanity.

I wouldn't call Apatow a cinematic genius, either, but I think the mistake you're making is you're tarring all comedies with the same brush. Apatow's movies aren't Annie Hall, or Whit Stillman's Metropolitan, or Some Like it Hot. And – here's the important thing – they're not trying to be. His movies capture the language of a specific group, a group that talks and acts in a way that – your delicate sensibilities aside – rings true to me. You might not like the method, but it's a bullshit argument to claim all comedies should aspire to do things in the same way. Would the characters in a teen sex comedy really talk like the characters in The Apartment? Really?

Thank you for being the voice of fucking reason here.

[schoolofruckus]

You two should get together and discuss which Bill Cosby bits are the funniest.



EDIT: FACE. Oh, wait, that's not a curse. FUCK.

FACEFUCK.

Thank you for being fucking hysterical tonight.

[wmgaretjax]

"I only laugh at movies about young boys trapped in refrigerators."

no... actually. that's not a comedy. sorry if I implied otherwise.

I don't know, the last movie I thought was really funny was The Incredibles...

If anyone has any really good comedies to recommend, shoot away. I like Woody Allen... for what it's worth.

[Neutral Milk Hotel]

The Cameron Diaz thing is based on Sofia's jealousy because her former husband - Spike "Fuck You Pot, I'm Not Releasing Where The Wild Things Are Until 10/08" Jonze - had a thing for Diaz when shooting "Being John Malkovich".

Faris fucking nailed her to the wall, too.

Yeah I know the story, I just think it's kind of petty.

[schoolofruckus]

i will keep trying.

I'm watching Primer. For a cheap fucking film, it's pretty cool.

Primer is an awesome film. To think some dude dropped his day job, read a few books, grabbed $8,000 and shot that film and it turned out the way it did is nothing short of inspiring.

[schoolofruckus]

hah.

No seriously. How many films has the man put out this year? Like seriously.

And, take it from my perspective, as a female filmmaker. Judd Apatow is a sexist, misogynistic fucktard who has openly stated that he sees no reason to write a film with a strong female character because (and I quote) "chicks have too many movies already."

His humor is idiotic and unoriginal; figuring out 15 different ways to make a joke about having a hard-on in an inappropriate public place is hardly genius or novel. His movies are trite, poorly written/constructed, and go on too long. Since when were comedies 2.5 hours?? Please.

Man needs to stop being such a woman-hater and try and make something with some comedic value.

You're going to have to either back this up or fuck off.

A. Apatow writes strong characters of both sexes. The fact that he has a hottie like Kathryn Heigl end up falling in love with slothful Seth Rogen doesn't make him a misogynist; the females in "Knocked Up" are clearly depicted as being the wiser, more respectable sex. Catherine Keener's character in "40YOV" is as soulful as any character you'll find in any mainstream comedy. Apatow goes for realistic comedy that has basis in real situations and real human emotions. It just happens to be seen from the point of view of immature males. If you see that as misogyny, then prepare to never be happy for the rest of your life.

B. I defy you to name one boner in public joke in the combined 5 hours that are "40YOV" and "Knocked Up". Steve Carell has morning wood during the credits of the former, and that's as close as you'll get.

C. I'm calling your bluff on the "chicks have too many movies" quote. Post it - and prove it wasn't facetious - or take your first-semester-freshman feminism back and get a refund.

[schoolofruckus]

Yeah I know the story, I just think it's kind of petty.

Perhaps. I don't mind it because I think Cameron Diaz sucks (aside from "In Her Shoes" and "Vanilla Sky"), but it certainly wasn't a gracious move on Sofia's part.

[Neutral Milk Hotel]

Meh, I have no problem with Cameron Diaz, I actually thought she was really good in Malkovich.

[roberto73]

Firestarter is on HBO now. Martin Sheen, Heather Locklear, George C. Scott, a post-Penis Breath/pre-coke whore Drew Barrymore, and directed by Mark "Commando" Lester? Count me in!

[luckyface]

I never saw that one. How does it compare to other King adaptations of the 80's? In particular, Cat's Eye and Silver Bullet? Those are two good terrible movies.

[roberto73]

So far, it's more Children of the Corn than The Shining, if that tells you anything.

[Benis23]

hah.

No seriously. How many films has the man put out this year? Like seriously.

And, take it from my perspective, as a female filmmaker. Judd Apatow is a sexist, misogynistic fucktard who has openly stated that he sees no reason to write a film with a strong female character because (and I quote) "chicks have too many movies already."

His humor is idiotic and unoriginal; figuring out 15 different ways to make a joke about having a hard-on in an inappropriate public place is hardly genius or novel. His movies are trite, poorly written/constructed, and go on too long. Since when were comedies 2.5 hours?? Please.

Man needs to stop being such a woman-hater and try and make something with some comedic value.

I understand why some people don't like his movies, but I don't understand this opinion that he's sexist or this criticism that he only writes about male characters. I mean, you have to write about what you know. And Judd Apatow knows about being a nerdy, funny, jewish kid who has a hard time getting laid. And what makes him sexist anyway? because he mostly writes about male characters? If he wrote movies about mainly female characters, the movie would be shitty because he is a male and doesn't know women nearly as well as he knows himself.

What I like about judd apatow movies is that you get to see a romance with guys who don't look like matthew mcconaughey and have boring, plastic personalities.

No question in my mind, though, that freaks and geeks is the best thing he's ever done.

[Stefinitely Maybe]

My girlfriend and her housemate and I all sat down to watch Fellini's "La Dolce Vita" last night. We turned it off after 90 minutes because we were all falling asleep. Some of the photography was great, and I could see the social commentary aspect of the movie, but there was no real storyline, and it was hardly a laugh a minute. Should we persist with the final 60 minutes? Is it really worth it? Maybe we were just in the wrong mood for a long black and white foreign movie...

[suprefan]

He is coming... (http://www.empireonline.com/heiscoming/)




http://www.empireonline.com/images/heiscoming/large8.jpg

[kitt kat]

fuck. i didn't realize how horribly prone to stereotyping you all are here.

maybe i should lay down the facts that

1. i am not in fucking high school
2. i'm not a freshman and i dont suffer from "first semester freshman feminism"
3. i'm not a prude, a cosby lover, nor do i have "delicate sensibilities" in regards to comedy
4. i said everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and things like this are a matter of taste

in regards to #4, i think too many of you are approaching this from the angle i'm trying to criticize. you're supporting the idea that apatow is the "voice of this generation," which, if true, is saddening/sickening/depressing. is this how you all want to be remembered? for supplying the world with more masturbation and sex jokes and for putting women in a negative light?

whoever got all techinical with the hardon jokes, fuck. i was using a figurative example to get my point across. fuck fuck fuck.

excuse me while i go watch a nancy meyers film, eat bon bons, cry until my mascara runs, and be a submissive little twerp. oh yeah. and be a high schooler...

[SojuGorae]

No Country For Old Men = Best film of 2007

If I didn't know it was a Coen Brothers movie before going into it, I would have never known.

[KungFuJoe]

no... actually. that's not a comedy. sorry if I implied otherwise.

I don't know, the last movie I thought was really funny was The Incredibles...

If anyone has any really good comedies to recommend, shoot away. I like Woody Allen... for what it's worth.


stephen chows god of cookery

[schoolofruckus]

fuck. i didn't realize how horribly prone to stereotyping you all are here.

maybe i should lay down the facts that

1. i am not in fucking high school
2. i'm not a freshman and i dont suffer from "first semester freshman feminism"
3. i'm not a prude, a cosby lover, nor do i have "delicate sensibilities" in regards to comedy
4. i said everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and things like this are a matter of taste

in regards to #4, i think too many of you are approaching this from the angle i'm trying to criticize. you're supporting the idea that apatow is the "voice of this generation," which, if true, is saddening/sickening/depressing. is this how you all want to be remembered? for supplying the world with more masturbation and sex jokes and for putting women in a negative light?

whoever got all techinical with the hardon jokes, fuck. i was using a figurative example to get my point across. fuck fuck fuck.

excuse me while i go watch a nancy meyers film, eat bon bons, cry until my mascara runs, and be a submissive little twerp. oh yeah. and be a high schooler...

Figurative example, talking out your ass....what's the difference anymore?

You're putting words in our mouths. I never said Apatow was the voice of anything. All I said is that he does terrific, character-driven, mainstream comedies that are the funniest such films I've seen in recent years (if not ever). He has no reservations about making adult comedies that are R-rated - which, after years of stupid PG-13 "sex comedies", is a welcome swing of the pendulum. And he's done it with films that - despite your gross misunderstanding - rely far more on clever dialogue and authentic characterizations than they do scatalogical humor.

The reason you're getting pegged for being an oversensitive crybaby is because you're spouting blanket generalizations that don't fit and have no basis in truth. And then you throw a shitfit when asked to actually, you know, back up your claims. Around here, we base our arguments on facts or, in matters of opinion, on specific points. When Randy doesn't like something, he gives you reasons why (in many cases, more than you're prepared to fight about). He may be off his skull with what he's saying, but at least he's thought it out and didn't reach the conclusion lazily. As opposed to just saying "Judd Apatow is no Billy Wilder!!!"

And for the record, Apatow is also no Wes Anderson, who I would be much more likely to say is the voice of our generation. And neither of them are David O. Russell. And none of the above are the Coen Bros.

Lastly, in regards to the bolded items above:


but i've always been of the school of thought that believes resorting to sex, cussing, dirty jokes, bathroom jokes, etc. in a screenplay is a sign of an underlying lack of talent.

http://img274.imageshack.us/img274/4894/jumptoconclusions2xk.jpg

[schoolofruckus]

In all the fun last night, I forgot to report that I'd just watched House of Games. It was typical Mamet, which is to say it was a riveting and enjoyable collision of crisp-speaking characters. Lots of narrative twists, as any good film about con artistry is, and a nice visual evocation of seedy society. I recommend.

[schoolofruckus]

Meh, I have no problem with Cameron Diaz, I actually thought she was really good in Malkovich.

Yeah, I would agree with that. I forgot to mention it even though we were already talking about it.

In fact, she's been in a lot of good movies, even though her work in some of them (Gangs of New York and Any Given Sunday) wasn't all that impressive. But I have an urge to dislike her and I don't know why; it'd be easy to blame the 30 minute I watched of Charlie's Angels before being committed for cutting myself, but that can't be all of it.

[RotationSlimWang]

Kitt Kat, everyone here knows that I am the comedic voice of this generation. Now leave Mr. Apatow alone--as Jews if we're not doctors or lawyers we're required by law to be comedians. They put tracking devices in us. No foolsies.

[luckyface]

4. i said everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and things like this are a matter of taste

...Yet you are criticizing those that enjoy Judd Apatow's work.

[bmack86]

In all the fun last night, I forgot to report that I'd just watched House of Games. It was typical Mamet, which is to say it was a riveting and enjoyable collision of crisp-speaking characters. Lots of narrative twists, as any good film about con artistry is, and a nice visual evocation of seedy society. I recommend.

I bought that recently and am looking forward to watching it

[Courtney]

I enjoyed Knocked Up. It was funny. And it has just as much in common genre-wise with female-driven romantic comedies as it does with more stereotypically male-driven gross out movies.

But kitt kat isn't the only person who has noted Apatow's general lack of depth when writing female characters. Slate (http://www.slate.com/id/2167386/) had an article about it. The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,2161812,00.html)'s review of the film also had some fairly serious criticisms.

Personally, I'm not convinced that he's a "woman-hater;" I suspect he's more just clueless and writing to his strengths.

[thefunkylama]

Nuh-uh, Courtney. He TOLD me he was a woman hater.

http://progressivemajoritywisconsin.org/images/blog_images/Image/he-man-woman-haters.jpg

[algunz]

Don't mean to change the subject, you can move on as you please past my post - but I saw No Country for Old Men finally. I'm sure your conversation is played out regarding this movie, but I just wanted to say how much I enjoy the Coen brother's use of visual patterns. My favorite shot of the whole movie was the pattern on the floor that was created by the officers shoes as he was being choked to death by Anton at the beginning of the film. Too cool.

Anywho, commence your banter.

Oh, and not all of Apatow's female characters lack depth. One of the best female characters ever to grace the small screen was Lindsay from Freaks & Geeks.

[Courtney]

He is coming... (http://www.empireonline.com/heiscoming/)
http://www.empireonline.com/images/heiscoming/large8.jpg

That has already been leaked (http://www.hollywoodchicago.com/2007/11/dark-knight-reward-for-he-is-coming.html).

[Courtney]

Don't mean to change the subject, you can move on as you please past my post - but I saw No Country for Old Men finally. I'm sure your conversation is played out regarding this movie, but I just wanted to say how much I enjoy the Coen brother's use of visual patterns. My favorite shot of the whole movie was the pattern on the floor that was created by the officers shoes as he was being choked to death by Anton at the beginning of the film. Too cool.

I agree. That was a nice shot. I finally saw No Country for Old Men too; I have been meaning to go back and read what people on here said about it. But yeah wow it was gooood.

Oh, and not all of Apatow's female characters lack depth. One of the best female characters ever to grace the small screen was Lindsay from Freaks & Geeks.

I can't speak to this because I haven't seen Freaks & Geeks. But I do maintain that the female characters in both Knocked Up and The 40 Year Old Virgin are quite shallow.

[wmgaretjax]

I can't speak to this because I haven't seen Freaks & Geeks. But I do maintain that the female characters in both Knocked Up and The 40 Year Old Virgin are quite shallow.

Freaks and Geeks is a good example, I like that show... even if I don't like Apatow's other movies...

[schoolofruckus]

Still, there was something about Knocked Up that bugged me—only intermittently during the movie, because I was too busy laughing at writer-director Judd Apatow's zingy dialogue—but more insistently afterward. I think what it boils down to is this: Apatow writes men with far more insight and acuity than he writes women. As a result, his portrait of contemporary gender relations is unbalanced: Crude and hilarious in Guyville, he seizes up when he gets to Ladyland and allows himself to take refuge in comfortable clichés. It's not that Knocked Up is misogynistic—if anything, Apatow is uxorious to a fault, scrupulously respectful of chicks and the chick stuff they do. He just doesn't seem to get exactly what that stuff is.

You - and the articles you posted - are correct: Apatow's strength may not be in getting inside a woman's soul. But that's a far, far cry from what Kitt Kat was saying.

The further examples in this article are, again, misguided and terribly flimsy. There's a HUGE degree of improbability in a girl like Heigl hooking up with Rogen, and the same can be said of the large avoidance of the topic of abortion. The former is a typical geeky screenwriter indulgence - the presence of a fantasy woman who has everything good in the world and yet still finds it in her heart to take a chance on a guy with less-than-impressive pedigree. The latter is more a testament to Apatow's familial tendencies than it is evidence of any kind of female oppression (as if anyone who isn't a rabid pro-choicer has a beef against women). Lastly, the sight of babies passing through the birth canal has churned men's stomachs since the caveman days. It's an honestly awkward fact of life that Apatow doesn't mind mining for comedy. It's definitely not sexism.

[KungFuJoe]

Don't mean to change the subject, you can move on as you please past my post - but I saw No Country for Old Men finally. I'm sure your conversation is played out regarding this movie, but I just wanted to say how much I enjoy the Coen brother's use of visual patterns. My favorite shot of the whole movie was the pattern on the floor that was created by the officers shoes as he was being choked to death by Anton at the beginning of the film. Too cool.
[/I].


I love the Coen Brothers & love the film, but shouldn't this kind of praise be directed towards the DP of the film. I mean you can't really tell too much of a difference in cinematography style in the Bros. films since they've only used two throughout their careers. Barry Sonnenfeld & Roger Deakins. It makes me wonder how heavily involved they are in this process and how much is actually created by the cinematographer. I have always wondered the same about Wong Kar Wai's films. Would they be as interesting and beautiful if it were not for the work of Christopher Doyle? Sometimes I just feel cinematographers do not get the credit they deserve.

[Yablonowitz]

I can't speak to this because I haven't seen Freaks & Geeks. But I do maintain that the female characters in both Knocked Up and The 40 Year Old Virgin are quite shallow.

Even Katherine Keener's character in 40 yr Old Virgin?

[schoolofruckus]

You spelled her name wrong.

SEXIST!

G.

[full on idle]

You're so afraid to admit that sexism actually is a real thing. Hi Gabe!!!

[schoolofruckus]

It's real as the day is long. Randy's a fucking sexist. Judd Apatow is not.

[PotVsKtl]

This conversation is gay.

[algunz]

Sometimes I just feel cinematographers do not get the credit they deserve.

So true, so true - I apologize. I would assume that it is a joint process (especially with artists of their experience) and a joint vision, but no the credit should not all fall on the director for sure.

[Courtney]

Even Katherine Keener's character in 40 yr Old Virgin?

In my memory, her character did seem more fleshed out than the Katherine Heigl character in Knocked Up, but she was still a somewhat two-dimensional foil for the more developed range of male characters.

[PotVsKtl]

I don't complain about the shitty male stereotypes in Four Weddings and a Bris. Perspective.

[RotationSlimWang]

I frequently complain about the lack of multi-dimensional non-stereotypical women in real life. The man isn't writing fantasy, here. When you bitches start being interesting, we'll write you that way.

[algunz]

I'd say that "Trish" was a well-developed character. She was a business owner, a struggling single mother searching for a normal, healthy relationship. She was reluctant to jump head long into sex because of her personal fears, yet she was still human and craved that kind of intimacy. She questioned Andy's intentions after her odd discoveries, yet she still had feelings for him - etc. etc.etc. How much more developed can you get?

[suprefan]

That has already been leaked (http://www.hollywoodchicago.com/2007/11/dark-knight-reward-for-he-is-coming.html).


Did you mention it here? Ok then......

[Courtney]

Did you mention it here? Ok then......

I don't even know what that means.

[amyzzz]

Yeah I know. I really enjoyed that movie the first time I saw it but I rewatched it recently and thought it was kind of shitty if true (the Cameron Diaz thing), which made it harder to enjoy the movie. Bill Murray still deserved an Oscar though.
If it was supposed to be Cameron Diaz, then that chick is a lousy representation of her. At least Diaz has charisma.

[Courtney]

I don't complain about the shitty male stereotypes in Four Weddings and a Bris. Perspective.

I think you're right. It's a mainstream gross-out/romantic comedy. Perhaps fully-developed characters aren't to be expected.

I'd say that "Trish" was a well-developed character. She was a business owner, a struggling single mother searching for a normal, healthy relationship. She was reluctant to jump head long into sex because of her personal fears, yet she was still human and craved that kind of intimacy. She questioned Andy's intentions after her odd discoveries, yet she still had feelings for him - etc. etc.etc. How much more developed can you get?

I think I would need to see the film again to refresh my memory if I was to build a stronger argument. But I do remember thinking it unrealistic that her character would (1) be interested in him in the first place, and (2) stick around despite all his weirdness. But you might be correct; my memory may be failing me here.

[thefunkylama]

give love a chance.

[algunz]

I think the jist of a lot of people's questioning the depth of the female characters comes from the "unbelievability" of these women getting involved with "these" men.

Why are these relationships so unbelievable? People hook up or fall in love for various different reasons. It does not always rely solely on the "mainstream" attractiveness of either party.

[thefunkylama]

Some people think Josh Rouse is a good looking man, for example. Others think he looks like the worst post-op tranny they've ever seen.

[Yablonowitz]

I frequently complain about the lack of multi-dimensional non-stereotypical women in real life. The man isn't writing fantasy, here. When you bitches start being interesting, we'll write you that way.

Do you know why you don't have any success romantically with women? It's because you hate them. And I expect that they hate you accordingly. I'd hate to probe your subconscious to find exactly where you got such a fucked up and disturbing visceral dislike for women. I do hope one of them stabs you in the chest though.

[algunz]

Although I do kind of agree with Randy, Yablo. Many of the women I interact with fall under this description - more so than the men. But, of course, I do live in the OC. I guess I'm doomed to a life with the non-dimensional.

[PotVsKtl]

I think you're right. It's a mainstream gross-out/romantic comedy. Perhaps fully-developed characters aren't to be expected.

It's not just that. Knocked Up is literally the "guy" equivalent of a "chick flick." Given that, it's perfectly reasonable for Apatow to say "there are enough chick flicks." Charging misogyny is ridiculous.

[RotationSlimWang]

Why are these relationships so unbelievable? People hook up or fall in love for various different reasons. It does not always rely solely on the "mainstream" attractiveness of either party.

This is true. Women also factor in money, for example. =)

[RotationSlimWang]

Do you know why you don't have any success romantically with women? It's because you hate them. And I expect that they hate you accordingly. I'd hate to probe your subconscious to find exactly where you got such a fucked up and disturbing visceral dislike for women. I do hope one of them stabs you in the chest though.

Yabs, clearly you don't understand women. Hating them is the one thing I have going for me when it comes to getting laid.

[algunz]

Damn, Randy - you are the quintessential asshole that all my girlfriends fall for and subsequently get fucked over by.

[RotationSlimWang]

Only because you force me to be.

[Yablonowitz]

Yabs, clearly you don't understand women. Hating them is the one thing I have going for me when it comes to getting laid.

Wow, you really are an asshole and a dick. All wrapped up in one.

[Neutral Milk Hotel]

I think I would need to see the film again to refresh my memory if I was to build a stronger argument. But I do remember thinking it unrealistic that her character would (1) be interested in him in the first place, and (2) stick around despite all his weirdness. But you might be correct; my memory may be failing me here.

I don't know why she wouldn't be interested in him, I mean, the character is a nice guy despite the whole virgin thing. They make it pretty clear that Trish is looking for a nice guy (I think there's something about her last boyfriend being a dick or something), so keeping that in mind it makes sense for her to go out with him.


1. i am not in fucking high school

I don't remember anyone saying that you were in high school, but this is the second time you've acted defensively on this board about someone thinking you were a high school student. Maybe you should reflect on why it would be possible for people to think that.

i dont suffer from "first semester freshman feminism"

Yes, you do.

3. i'm not a prude, a cosby lover, nor do i have "delicate sensibilities" in regards to comedy

I have to admit I did think it was kind of weird that Randy approached this that way, because you're not a prude. Instead, you're pretentious and condescending. Art isn't a ladder to enlightenment that you climb so as to sneer at the people at the bottom. Your use of Wilder's The Apartment as the standard for all movie comedies was fucking ridiculous.

In addition to that, I could be misinterpreting you but I don't think you really understand why a movie like "The Apartment" is a success. It really has nothing to do with the movie's lack of raunch and constant swearing. That movie could be written by Kevin Smith, and it would still be great if it addressed the same themes and had the same characters. The really resonant comedies stay with us because they have some sort of truth to them. That's why movies like The Graduate continue to live on in the memory. The Apartment remains a classic because it has characters we can recognize as authentic, which kind of sets it apart from, I don't know, The Three Stooges (who are awesome, btw). The same is true of Apatow. Focusing on all of the swearing and sex jokes is really missing the point; it's the truthful, funny, and nuanced portrayal of relationships and insecurity and maturity that makes his films particularly rewarding.

in regards to #4, i think too many of you are approaching this from the angle i'm trying to criticize. you're supporting the idea that apatow is the "voice of this generation," which, if true, is saddening/sickening/depressing.

Despite the fact that nobody actually said anything close to this, if the voice of our generation is making movies about how even the most apathetic and drug-addled of us can pull our shit together and grow up when the time comes, then I'd say our generation is in a pretty good place.

Just out of curiosity: what would you say is a film that could be considered the voice of this generation?

putting women in a negative light

Sure, Judd Apatow knows more about a guy's mind that a girl's mind, but that doesn't make him a misogynist at all. I mean, look at the arc of Knocked Up. The whole thing basically boils down to: Katherine Heigl is successful, Katherine Heigl is mature, Katherine Heigl is compassionate, etc. etc. etc. Seth Rogen is a lazy (if charismatic) stoner and needs to grow up. I mean, look at the way the movie ends; he gets a new job, he moves out into an apartment, he actually takes steps toward being able to take care of his family. Sure, the Heigl character isn't written with the same insight as Rogen, but it's pretty clear that she's meant to be a mature adult...which, you know, is totally sexist.

[RotationSlimWang]

Jesus Christ, Yabs, what's your beef recently? You put Tom in your avatar and your cocksucking tripled.

[Somewhat Damaged]

In the event anyone's interested: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071127/ap_en_ot/film_spirit_awards

I'm going to be up in Phoenix at the end of the week for work and I hear I'm Not There is playing there, so I'm looking forward to checking it out. Oh yeah, and No Country for Old Men was ace.

[mountmccabe]

Does anyone else out there even give a fuck about seeing Southland Tales? Is it a bigger deal to me than it is to most people?

I really want to see this.


If I am feeling better I will probably see Walk Hard tomorrow. I will keep my eyes peeled for misogyny.

[schoolofruckus]

I don't know why she wouldn't be interested in him, I mean, the character is a nice guy despite the whole virgin thing.




I don't remember anyone saying that you were in high school, but this is the second time you've acted defensively on this board about someone thinking you were a high school student. Maybe you should reflect on why it would be possible for people to think that.



Yes, you do.



I have to admit I did think it was kind of weird that Randy approached this that way, because you're not a prude. Instead, you're pretentious and condescending. Your use of Wilder's The Apartment as the standard for all movie comedies was fucking ridiculous.

In addition to that, I could be misinterpreting you but I don't think you really understand why a movie like "The Apartment" is a success. It really has nothing to do with the movie's lack of raunch and constant swearing. That movie could be written by Kevin Smith, and it would still be great if it addressed the same themes and had the same characters. The really resonant comedies stay with us because they have some sort of truth to them. That's why movies like The Graduate continue to live on in the memory. The Apartment remains a classic because it has characters we can recognize as authentic, which kind of sets it apart from, I don't know, The Three Stooges (who are awesome, btw). The same is true of Apatow. Focusing on all of the swearing and sex jokes is really missing the point; it's the truthful, funny, and nuanced portrayal of relationships and insecurity and maturity that makes his films particularly rewarding.



Despite the fact that nobody actually said anything close to this, if the voice of our generation is making movies about how even the most apathetic and drug-addled of us can pull our shit together and grow up when the time comes, then I'd say our generation is in a pretty good place.

Just out of curiosity: what would you say is a film that could be considered the voice of this generation?



Sure, Judd Apatow knows more about a guy's mind that a girl's mind, but that doesn't make him a misogynist at all. I mean, look at the arc of Knocked Up. The whole thing basically boils down to: Katherine Heigl is successful, Katherine Heigl is mature, Katherine Heigl is compassionate, etc. etc. etc. Seth Rogen is a lazy (if charismatic) stoner and needs to grow up. I mean, look at the way the movie ends; he gets a new job, he moves out into an apartment, he actually takes steps toward being able to take care of his family. Sure, the Heigl character isn't written with the same insight as Rogen, but it's pretty clear that she's meant to be a mature adult...which, you know, is totally sexist.

It's a shame that such a well-done series of points will almost certainly fall on deaf ears.

[schoolofruckus]

In the event anyone's interested: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071127/ap_en_ot/film_spirit_awards

I'm going to be up in Phoenix at the end of the week for work and I hear I'm Not There is playing there, so I'm looking forward to checking it out. Oh yeah, and No Country for Old Men was ace.

The Indies would be a lot more to get excited over if they hadn't ignored Control entirely.

[full on idle]

It's a shame that such a well-done series of points will almost certainly fall on deaf ears.

Why are you making that assumption?

[Benis23]

OK movie buffs - I just ordered blockbuster online.

Here's my queue so far:

The Conversation
The Lookout
Oldboy
Manhattan
Being There
The Ice Storm
That Obscure Object of Desire
The Seventh Seal
Spider-man 3
Life of Brian
Princess Mononoke
Dirty Pretty Things
Flirting with Disaster
Rescue Dawn
Ocean's Thirteen
Event Horizon
CQ
The Five Obstructions

I hate sitting down to watch a movie and then realize that it's awful 10 mns. in. Anything there that I should definitely avoid?

[full on idle]

I liked the Ice Storm.

[Somewhat Damaged]

The Indies would be a lot more to get excited over if they hadn't ignored Control entirely.

I'm so pissed about Control. A couple weeks ago, it was playing at a theater that's a five-minute walk from my house. They usually have things there for several weeks, and earlier in the year, they'd had The Lives of Others, La Vie en Rose, and Once all play for a couple of months. And on the last week that all those films were playing, they had a sign on the marquee stating "Such-and-such movie ends Thursday" so that if you were procrastinating on seeing it, you'd know when to stop procrastinating. I didn't even mean to procrastinate on Control, I was just waiting to see it till my girlfriend came down a couple weeks later 'cause she wanted to catch it with me. So naturally, it ends up only playing for one fucking week. Meanwhile, the critically acclaimed, highly anticipated Naked Boys Singing has been playing there for a month. Am I the only that doesn't make any sense to?

[Neutral Milk Hotel]

Does anyone else out there even give a fuck about seeing Southland Tales? Is it a bigger deal to me than it is to most people?

I had planned to see it (I got a Southland Tales shirt two years ago and kind of felt obligated), but the really bad reviews kind of weakened my interest, and then it disappeared from theaters here after a week. I did want to see it.

btw, I saw I'm Not There about a week ago, I loved it. Hoping to see it again this week.

[Neutral Milk Hotel]

OK movie buffs - I just ordered blockbuster online.

Here's my queue so far:

The Conversation
The Lookout
Oldboy
Manhattan
Being There
The Ice Storm
That Obscure Object of Desire
The Seventh Seal
Spider-man 3
Life of Brian
Princess Mononoke
Dirty Pretty Things
Flirting with Disaster
Rescue Dawn
Ocean's Thirteen
Event Horizon
CQ
The Five Obstructions

I hate sitting down to watch a movie and then realize that it's awful 10 mns. in. Anything there that I should definitely avoid?


Not in that list. Being There is one of my favorite movies. And Manhattan is Woody Allen's best film, imo.

Well actually you could hate Event Horizon, but I thought the directing was good enough to make up for the weak story. In any event it's a good bloodtacular movie to turn off your brain to.

[schoolofruckus]

My take:

OK movie buffs - I just ordered blockbuster online.

Here's my queue so far:

The Conversation
The Lookout Kind of boring. Fairly straightforward and decent, but nothing exciting.
Oldboy Masterpiece
Manhattan
Being There
The Ice Storm
That Obscure Object of Desire
The Seventh Seal More than a little heavy-handed and quaint with all the religious stuff. Acting's a stiff. It's pretty short, but it's still a waste of time in my opinion
Spider-man 3
Life of Brian
Princess Mononoke
Dirty Pretty Things
Flirting with Disaster Hilarious modern-day screwball
Rescue Dawn
Ocean's Thirteen Least successful of the three, if only for the familiarity aspect
Event Horizon Outlandish characterizations. It has some flashy set design and some decent horror-movie thrills. Just don't expect anything human to care about
CQ
The Five Obstructions

I hate sitting down to watch a movie and then realize that it's awful 10 mns. in. Anything there that I should definitely avoid?

[amyzzz]

Southland Tales was only showing here at about 10pm at the AMC's this past week, so good luck finding it, John. I don't know if Control ever played here. I really want to see it though, damnit.

[schoolofruckus]

Why are you making that assumption?

Because based on Kitt Kat's response to the initial line of "what the fuck are you talking about?" inquiries, this one probably won't make much of an impact either.

[PotVsKtl]

My take:

The Seventh Seal More than a little heavy-handed and quaint with all the religious stuff. Acting's a stiff. It's pretty short, but it's still a waste of time in my opinion


Uh. Are you thinking of Seventh Sign? Ninth Gate? Seventh Seal is an Ingmar Bergman film.

[full on idle]

Because based on Kitt Kat's response to the initial line of "what the fuck are you talking about?" inquiries, this one probably won't make much of an impact either.

So if she doesn't agree with you, she's not listening. Got it.

[full on idle]

/BUTTON

I don't know what my deal is today.

[Courtney]

Bergman is pretty into religious symbolism.

[chrislasf]

OK movie buffs - I just ordered blockbuster online.

Here's my queue so far:

The Conversation
The Lookout
Oldboy
Manhattan
Being There
The Ice Storm
That Obscure Object of Desire
The Seventh Seal
Spider-man 3
Life of Brian
Princess Mononoke
Dirty Pretty Things
Flirting with Disaster
Rescue Dawn
Ocean's Thirteen
Event Horizon
CQ
The Five Obstructions

I hate sitting down to watch a movie and then realize that it's awful 10 mns. in. Anything there that I should definitely avoid?

Spiderman 3 is probably the worst movie I have seen in several years.

The Conversation is a fucking masterpiece. The opening sequence in SF's Union Square is so fucking awesome. I have yet to see someone employ sound design the way this film does. And Walter Murch, well hes a god for a reason.

[schoolofruckus]

Yeah, you really need to stop. We asked her to justify her claims, she went into a tizzy and didn't do it. Pay attention.

Uh. Are you thinking of Seventh Sign? Ninth Gate? Seventh Seal is an Ingmar Bergman film.

Yeah, I meant The Seventh Seal. The acting was poor, the dialogue (as translated by subtitle) was awful, and the heavy-handed Christianity held little appeal to me.

[PotVsKtl]

Bergman is pretty into religious symbolism.

True, but I can't see "quaint."

EDIT: Nevermind, Gabriel is functionally retarded.

[chrislasf]

Go ahead and buy me a helmet then too because I am in the exact same boat when it comes to Seventh Seal. Snoozefest.

[schoolofruckus]

The Virgin Spring was MUCH better than Seventh Seal. Ultimately, I thought it submarined what it was going for with dad resolving to build a church on the spring, because until that point it had been a solid study of faith in question.

If you have other Bergmans to recommend, go right ahead. I can't write him off on the basis of only two films, but his stuff has yet to really soar with me.

[Courtney]

I'd say that both Persona and Wild Strawberries are better than The Virgin Spring and The Seventh Seal (although I don't have the problems with the latter two that you did). If you're gonna like anything by Bergman, it's probably going to be Persona.

[schoolofruckus]

Persona will be next up for me. It's in my Netflix queue.

[PotVsKtl]

You don't have to love Bergman, I don't particularly, but I can't see calling Seventh Seal quaint, and I have no idea how you come away thinking the acting is wooden.

[PotVsKtl]

And the symbolism is purposefully heavy-handed.

[schoolofruckus]

I didn't mind the symbolism being heavy-handed. I loved the idea of a knight playing Death at chess. It was just executed in a way that I didn't find exciting.

The problem I have with it being "quaint" is all that doom-and-gloom, on the nose, "if we sin, we're going to HELL!!!" shit. Absolutely it's an indicator of the times, and of course some people think that way even today, but it's not a worldview I feel inclined to spend a whole lot of time with. The acting....what can I say? I didn't buy it. I didn't get any sign of a real person in Max von Sydow's character.

[PotVsKtl]

It's not the worldview of the movie either.

[full on idle]

Yeah, you really need to stop. We asked her to justify her claims, she went into a tizzy and didn't do it. Pay attention.


Oh am I next for the wrath?

Let me lay it out how I see it, (pay attention):

FUCK WALK HARD

IF JUDD APATOW MAKES ANOTHER MOVIE
I'M GONNA SHANK A BITCH

- sarcasatic remark by Wang -

hah.

No seriously. How many films has the man put out this year? Like seriously.

And, take it from my perspective, as a female filmmaker. Judd Apatow is a sexist, misogynistic fucktard who has openly stated that he sees no reason to write a film with a strong female character because (and I quote) "chicks have too many movies already."

His humor is idiotic and unoriginal; figuring out 15 different ways to make a joke about having a hard-on in an inappropriate public place is hardly genius or novel. His movies are trite, poorly written/constructed, and go on too long. Since when were comedies 2.5 hours?? Please.

Man needs to stop being such a woman-hater and try and make something with some comedic value.

Okay, so she's saying some insulting things about the guy, including the fact that his work seems misogynistic to her.

- sexist remark by Wang -

- second sexist remark by Wang -

Tell that to Sofia's oscar.

Defending the claim that there are no good female directors.

kitt kat... have you seen Knocked Up or Superbad?

My girlfriend couldnt even watch the 40 Year Old Virgin. She basicaly thought the same thing about it as you do.

However, I convinced her to see Knocked Up... and she LOVED it. She almost couldnt believe it was written/directed by the same guy. We then went and saw Superbad and we both thought that was great as well. We are both looking forward to Walk Hard. Mainly for the cameos though...

i have. i don't get the hype behind it. there's a million other comedies that are funnier that don't resort to woman bashing, masturbation jokes, and sex.

i'm no prude, trust me.

but i've always been of the school of thought that believes resorting to sex, cussing, dirty jokes, bathroom jokes, etc. in a screenplay is a sign of an underlying lack of talent. simply put---those who use those things cannot think of how to phrase things in a way it would be intellectually/truly/affectingly humorous.

compare something like superbad to the apartment.

hmm. now, i don't think people will still be referencing superbad in 40 years like they do the apartment.

i know it's a matter of personal taste, but the personal taste of the american public has really gone downhill when they label judd apatow as a 'cinematic genius.'

She's seen Knocked Up. She found the humor cheap and ineffective. She thinks Apatow's movies are overrated.

- sexist remark by Wang -

I agree on this. I honestly can't stand bathroom humor, or crude dirty/sexist jokes, or tons of cussing. Trust me, I took a couple screenwriting classes, and about 95% of the students in there thought it was so cool and funny to start throwing in all the cuss words they could think of (and I also wonder why all those film students were addicted to those dumbfuck zombie/vampire stories too...lame).

Look! Somebody agrees with her!

- bad Cosby joke by Wang, followed by self-congratulatory Wang statement -

Posts 3526-3536, banter with discussion of who likes Apatow.

What's the basis of the comparison? That they're both comedies? I guess, but the last time I checked, The Apartment wasn't about Jack Lemmon trying to get laid at a high school party (although that would be a funny movie, especially now). You might as well have suggested it be compared to Ernest Goes to Jail.

Bad language, sexual references, etc., are signs of no talent ... when they're done poorly. When they're done well, they can achieve the same poetry as more sophisticated devices. Go watch Glengarry Glen Ross, and then we can have a conversation about the supposed dearth of talent represented by profanity.

I wouldn't call Apatow a cinematic genius, either, but I think the mistake you're making is you're tarring all comedies with the same brush. Apatow's movies aren't Annie Hall, or Whit Stillman's Metropolitan, or Some Like it Hot. And – here's the important thing – they're not trying to be. His movies capture the language of a specific group, a group that talks and acts in a way that – your delicate sensibilities aside – rings true to me. You might not like the method, but it's a bullshit argument to claim all comedies should aspire to do things in the same way. Would the characters in a teen sex comedy really talk like the characters in The Apartment? Really?

Looks like Roberto's furthering the discussion. He's challenging her claim that Apatow's a misogynist.

for the most part, I hate comedies.

i think judd apatow is incredibly over-rated. I'm not sure I would get as silly to say he's a woman hater or any of that shit, but his jokes are tired.

Sofia Coppola is a hack too.

Maya Deren is a good female director. So is Catherine Breillat. So is Jane Campion. As is Lynne Ramsey. John Waters?

Wmgaretjax thinks Judd Apatow is overrated.

- sexist remark by Wang -

3541-3548: banter

Thank you for being the voice of fucking reason here.

Looks like you think Roberto's post was fucking reasonable!!!

- compliment by you to Wang on his hilarity -

3552-3554: banter

You're going to have to either back this up or fuck off.

A. Apatow writes strong characters of both sexes. The fact that he has a hottie like Kathryn Heigl end up falling in love with slothful Seth Rogen doesn't make him a misogynist; the females in "Knocked Up" are clearly depicted as being the wiser, more respectable sex. Catherine Keener's character in "40YOV" is as soulful as any character you'll find in any mainstream comedy. Apatow goes for realistic comedy that has basis in real situations and real human emotions. It just happens to be seen from the point of view of immature males. If you see that as misogyny, then prepare to never be happy for the rest of your life.

B. I defy you to name one boner in public joke in the combined 5 hours that are "40YOV" and "Knocked Up". Steve Carell has morning wood during the credits of the former, and that's as close as you'll get.

C. I'm calling your bluff on the "chicks have too many movies" quote. Post it - and prove it wasn't facetious - or take your first-semester-freshman feminism back and get a refund.

You don't agree with her. You curse at her and insult her twice.

3556-3560: banter

I understand why some people don't like his movies, but I don't understand this opinion that he's sexist or this criticism that he only writes about male characters. I mean, you have to write about what you know. And Judd Apatow knows about being a nerdy, funny, jewish kid who has a hard time getting laid. And what makes him sexist anyway? because he mostly writes about male characters? If he wrote movies about mainly female characters, the movie would be shitty because he is a male and doesn't know women nearly as well as he knows himself.

What I like about judd apatow movies is that you get to see a romance with guys who don't look like matthew mcconaughey and have boring, plastic personalities.

No question in my mind, though, that freaks and geeks is the best thing he's ever done.

Benis likes Apatow.

3562-3563: banter

fuck. i didn't realize how horribly prone to stereotyping you all are here.

maybe i should lay down the facts that

1. i am not in fucking high school
2. i'm not a freshman and i dont suffer from "first semester freshman feminism"
3. i'm not a prude, a cosby lover, nor do i have "delicate sensibilities" in regards to comedy
4. i said everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and things like this are a matter of taste

in regards to #4, i think too many of you are approaching this from the angle i'm trying to criticize. you're supporting the idea that apatow is the "voice of this generation," which, if true, is saddening/sickening/depressing. is this how you all want to be remembered? for supplying the world with more masturbation and sex jokes and for putting women in a negative light?

whoever got all techinical with the hardon jokes, fuck. i was using a figurative example to get my point across. fuck fuck fuck.

excuse me while i go watch a nancy meyers film, eat bon bons, cry until my mascara runs, and be a submissive little twerp. oh yeah. and be a high schooler...

I think she's mad now. It seems like she's saying that she gets that Apatow's using the "real guy" model for his characters, but this disappoints her. She defends against the boner challenge with the statement that she was being figurative. She's defensive about your "freshman" comment.


Figurative example, talking out your ass....what's the difference anymore?

You're putting words in our mouths. I never said Apatow was the voice of anything. All I said is that he does terrific, character-driven, mainstream comedies that are the funniest such films I've seen in recent years (if not ever). He has no reservations about making adult comedies that are R-rated - which, after years of stupid PG-13 "sex comedies", is a welcome swing of the pendulum. And he's done it with films that - despite your gross misunderstanding - rely far more on clever dialogue and authentic characterizations than they do scatalogical humor.

The reason you're getting pegged for being an oversensitive crybaby is because you're spouting blanket generalizations that don't fit and have no basis in truth. And then you throw a shitfit when asked to actually, you know, back up your claims. Around here, we base our arguments on facts or, in matters of opinion, on specific points. When Randy doesn't like something, he gives you reasons why (in many cases, more than you're prepared to fight about). He may be off his skull with what he's saying, but at least he's thought it out and didn't reach the conclusion lazily. As opposed to just saying "Judd Apatow is no Billy Wilder!!!"

And for the record, Apatow is also no Wes Anderson, who I would be much more likely to say is the voice of our generation. And neither of them are David O. Russell. And none of the above are the Coen Bros.

Lastly, in regards to the bolded items above:



http://img274.imageshack.us/img274/4894/jumptoconclusions2xk.jpg

You tell her she's talking out of her ass. You call her an oversensitive crybaby and that she's jumping to conclusions.

I enjoyed Knocked Up. It was funny. And it has just as much in common genre-wise with female-driven romantic comedies as it does with more stereotypically male-driven gross out movies.

But kitt kat isn't the only person who has noted Apatow's general lack of depth when writing female characters. Slate (http://www.slate.com/id/2167386/) had an article about it. The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,2161812,00.html)'s review of the film also had some fairly serious criticisms.

Personally, I'm not convinced that he's a "woman-hater;" I suspect he's more just clueless and writing to his strengths.

Courtney brings some off-board opinions into the argument. Courtney's reasonable.

This is followed by further discussion of Apatow's work, interspersed with people telling her that she's wrong.

I think it's funny that you think she got more spaz than you did.

Maybe she'll come back and argue her point some more. Or maybe she'll feel too discouraged to come back.

[Yablonowitz]

The Conversation is a fucking masterpiece. The opening sequence in SF's Union Square is so fucking awesome. I have yet to see someone employ sound design the way this film does. And Walter Murch, well hes a god for a reason.

We agree on this which makes the fact that you liked Anchorman even more galling.

[chrislasf]

You just dont like silly. Same reason you dont like Spaceballs. I still beg you to rent Supertroopers sometime.

[full on idle]

Who doesn't like Spaceballs? That's preposterous.

[wmgaretjax]

Bergman:
Persona
Cries and Whispers
Scenes from a Marriage

i recommend them in that order. I'm not big on the Seventh Seal, but I really respect it.

[PotVsKtl]

I fucking hate Spaceballs.

[PotVsKtl]

In fact, I hate Mel Brooks.

[full on idle]

I hate Bringing Up Baby.

[RotationSlimWang]

In fact, I hate Mel Brooks.

Anti-semite.

[Neutral Milk Hotel]

I've never liked The Seventh Seal all that much, but Bergman is possibly my favorite filmmaker of all time. My personal favorite film of his is Fanny & Alexander. The Faith Trilogy is worth checking out too, and Scenes from a Marriage. I could just keep adding movies to this but I'll stop there.

[PotVsKtl]

I hate Bringing Up Baby.

Sorry, they couldn't convince Cary Grant to do a "my schwartz is bigger than your schwartz" joke. It must really rankle your sophisticated sensibilities that they weren't able to replace the leopard with John Candy in a fucking dog getup lighting his farts on fire in a Toys 'R Us.

[full on idle]

Confession: I don't remember a thing about Bringing Up Baby.

[PotVsKtl]

Clarification: That's because you were watching The Philadelphia Story.

[RotationSlimWang]

Bullshit you don't like Blazing Saddles. Bullshit, I say. Spaceballs... okay, I mean I can imagine not liking that, I suppose. But if you try and claim you've watched Blazing Saddles and not liked it you're a fucking filthy liar.

[full on idle]

hahahahahahahah

[PotVsKtl]

I've never watched Blazing Saddles because I don't like Jewish people.

[idrive1life]

I'd say that both Persona and Wild Strawberries are better than The Virgin Spring and The Seventh Seal (although I don't have the problems with the latter two that you did). If you're gonna like anything by Bergman, it's probably going to be Persona.

Ingmar Bergman! Ahhhhh, another :pulse of mine!

I have'nt seen the Virgin Spring yet. In my mind, Wild Strawberries A+ is Bergman's best (oh well, I've only seen Persona A, The Seventh A, Cries and Whispers A-, Autumn Sonata A-, Funny and Alexander A- and Saraband A-). It's in my Top 10 favorite/greatest films of all-time. Bergman is probably in my Top 20 favorite/greatest directors of all-time .

I guess I should resubscribe to netflix and watch the ones I have not seen among his other works (oh well, I've also thought of doing that right after when he and Antonioni died few months ago). I would've bought during DDD/DVD Planet's Thxgvng sale of Ingmar Bergman - Four Masterworks (Criterion Collection) if I do not already have Criterions of Wild Strawberries and The Seventh Seal. Actually, I thought I already have his Trilogy Criterion collection. I just checked my collection (it's mostly Criterions of Truffaut's, Kurosawa's and Hitchcock's ... fuck! Speaking of greatest directors along with Bergman and Antonioni, those 3 are also way up there in my list, plus Welles, Bunuel, Kubrick, Malick, Kar-wai, Almodovar & so and so ...)

Anyway, speaking of Antonioni, if I think Wild Strawberry is my #1 Bergman's film, Blow-Up is my most favorite among Antonioni's works. In fact, if I'm going to make another greatest films list, it would still be way up there among in the Top 5 (it's my #1/greatest film ever when I made a list 3 years ago).

I was able to see the mesmerizing No Country for Old Men A+/A (what a staggering achievement in film making - flawless direction, magnificent cinematography and not unlike Cache, it's non use of a soundtrack is brilliantly chilling ... I need to see this film again to recheck on few things before I can say that without a doubt this is the first masterpiece of 2007) and Before The Devil Knows You're Dead A-/B+ last Sunday.

I still need to see Persepolis, Grindhouse (especially Tarantino's Death Proof), Away From Her, Ratatouille, Rescue Dawn, My Blueberry Nights, Once, I'm Not There ...

[Cruel Runnings]

Before The Devil Knows You're Dead, I'm Not There, and Control are all coming to my town very soon. I am making it a goal to see all of them before they leave.

[idrive1life]

Yeah, I also really need to see Control.

[KungFuJoe]

http://www.filmjunk.com/2007/11/22/stephen-chows-cj7-trailer/

[schoolofruckus]

I think it's funny that you think she got more spaz than you did.

Maybe she'll come back and argue her point some more. Or maybe she'll feel too discouraged to come back.

I think you out-spazzed everyone.

I'm also waiting for her to start arguing her point instead of registering vague complaints.

[Yablonowitz]

Clarification: That's because you were watching The Philadelphia Story.

Much love for The Philadelphia Story. Much.

[schoolofruckus]

Ingmar Bergman! Ahhhhh, another :pulse of mine!

I have'nt seen the Virgin Spring yet. In my mind, Wild Strawberries A+ is Bergman's best (oh well, I've only seen Persona A, The Seventh A, Cries and Whispers A-, Autumn Sonata A-, Funny and Alexander A- and Saraband A-). It's in my Top 10 favorite/greatest films of all-time. Bergman is probably in my Top 20 favorite/greatest directors of all-time .

I guess I should resubscribe to netflix and watch the ones I have not seen among his other works (oh well, I've also thought of doing that right after when he and Antonioni died few months ago). I would've bought during DDD/DVD Planet's Thxgvng sale of Ingmar Bergman - Four Masterworks (Criterion Collection) if I do not already have Criterions of Wild Strawberries and The Seventh Seal. Actually, I thought I already have his Trilogy Criterion collection. I just checked my collection (it's mostly Criterions of Truffaut's, Kurosawa's and Hitchcock's ... fuck! Speaking of greatest directors along with Bergman and Antonioni, those 3 are also way up there in my list, plus Welles, Bunuel, Kubrick, Malick, Kar-wai, Almodovar & so and so ...)

Anyway, speaking of Antonioni, if I think Wild Strawberry is my #1 Bergman's film, Blow-Up is my most favorite among Antonioni's works. In fact, if I'm going to make another greatest films list, it would still be way up there among in the Top 5 (it's my #1/greatest film ever when I made a list 3 years ago).

I was able to see the mesmerizing No Country for Old Men A+/A (what a staggering achievement in film making - flawless direction, magnificent cinematography and not unlike Cache, it's non use of a soundtrack is brilliantly chilling ... I need to see this film again to recheck on few things before I can say that without a doubt this is the first masterpiece of 2007) and Before The Devil Knows You're Dead A-/B+ last Sunday.

I still need to see Persepolis, Grindhouse (especially Tarantino's Death Proof), Away From Her, Ratatouille, Rescue Dawn, My Blueberry Nights, Once, I'm Not There ...

You have good taste.

Antonioni's one of the best ever. Bergman's an idiot for talking shit about him repeatedly.

I don't think you necessarily need to see Grindhouse. And we all need My Blueberry Nights to come out already.

Question: Have you seen The Assassination of Jesse James By the Coward Robert Ford? What about Zodiac? I would put those two up just about as high as No Country. Also, There Will Be Blood is as good as any of them. God damn, I can't wait to see that one again.

[wmgaretjax]

I also think you probably don't need to bother with Ratatouille...

I thought it was boring. A big step down from Incredibles.

Also, do you like Tarkovksy? Bela Tarr? You can't separate Antonioni from those guys (nor Bresson).

Good taste. good taste...

[algunz]

You just dont like silly. I still beg you to rent Supertroopers sometime.

Just cutting in . . .

Personally, I LOVE silly - but Supertroopers was just STUPID.

[full on idle]

I think you out-spazzed everyone.

Calmer than you are.

[iv3rdawG]

I also think you probably don't need to bother with Ratatouille...

I thought it was boring. A big step down from Incredibles.

Hmm, I liked it quite a bit. Although it may have been a step down from The Incredibles it was a big step up from Cars. One of Pixar's best, I think.

[schoolofruckus]

Calmer than you are.

http://www.observationdeck.org/lip_images/sub_3000.jpg

[bmack86]

Wild Strawberries is a good one, but my favorites by him are Winter Light and Through a Glass Darkly. Fuckin' bleak.

But, The Seventh Seal is really entertaining to me. I quite enjoyed it. The Magic Flute is interesting, but it's not really a "Bergman" movie.

[Yablonowitz]

Hmm, I liked it quite a bit. Although it may have been a step down from The Incredibles it was a big step up from Cars. One of Pixar's best, I think.

Ratatouille is up there. So is The Incredibles.

Nemo wins.

[iv3rdawG]

Ratatouille is up there. So is The Incredibles.

Nemo wins.

I don't know why but I just really never got into Nemo that much. Toy Story is still my number one.

[schoolofruckus]

It's not the worldview of the movie either.

Let's forget Seventh Seal for a minute, because I have at least in part.

Big fucking spoilers

What about The Virgin Spring? Why the fuck does Bergman end the film with the dad deciding to build a church to the lord after finding his daughter? I'm either missing something huge, or I'm seeing a good, bleak movie about spiritual uncertainty wuss out at the very end.

[wmgaretjax]

Let's forget Seventh Seal for a minute, because I have at least in part.

Big fucking spoilers

What about The Virgin Spring? Why the fuck does Bergman end the film with the dad deciding to build a church to the lord after finding his daughter? I'm either missing something huge, or I'm seeing a good, bleak movie about spiritual uncertainty wuss out at the very end.

how is it wussing out to show how stupid people are when they aren't in a position where they feel forced to question their circumstance? pretty bleak if you ask me...

[rage patton]

I am watching Ratatouille with my girlfried this weekend. After that I will be able to fully rate all the Pixar movies.
We are also watching Paris Je T'aime. Good idea? Bad idea?

[wmgaretjax]

I am watching Ratatouille with my girlfried this weekend. After that I will be able to fully rate all the Pixar movies.
We are also watching Paris Je T'aime. Good idea? Bad idea?

I did not like it for the most part. The Gus Van Sant segment was great.

Oh, and Gabe, I'm gonna try and see Southland Tales this weekend... I'm excited.

[menikmati]

I want to see Bee Movie.

[iv3rdawG]

We are also watching Paris Je T'aime. Good idea? Bad idea?

I liked it. I particulary enjoyed Alexander Payne's segment aswell as Tom Tykwer's, Faubourg Saint-Denis, the one with Portman. Also Place des Fêtes. The only one that I really disliked in the movie was Porte de Choisy.

[idrive1life]

You have good taste

Thanks. I don't know how many times I've posted in this thread (thanks & +100 to you for starting this great thread) but it's only now that I finally able to read your fantastic recap of 2006 (I'm in pretty much agreement with what you put out there). I just realized there are so many films you mentioned there that I must see ... like right now (instead of posting/hanging out in this board) or tomorrow or next weekend ... arrrghhhhhh, so many movies, so little time. I don't have the time to read the other 100 pages to determine if you finally saw United 93 (one of my very best of '06).

Question: Have you seen The Assassination of Jesse James By the Coward Robert Ford? What about Zodiac? I would put those two up just about as high as No Country. Also, There Will Be Blood is as good as any of them. God damn, I can't wait to see that one again.

I have not seen The Assassination of Jesse James. For some reason, though it generally got rave reviews, I don't know why I forgot to watch it. Maybe because we always end up choosing to watch what we thought are more interesting than TAoJJ. I don't see it showing anymore in our local theaters (around NE FL or Orlando, FL area). I'll just probably watch it in pay per view or once it comes out in DVD.

I like Zodiac B+ quite a bit, however, I found it a bit too long and not as suspenseful or thrilling as I hoped it would be. Though I'm disappointed with Panic Room, I still think David Fincher is one of the most exciting American directors of the last 12 years or so (along with Tarantino, Hanson, Paul Thomas Anderson ... ? I'm forgetting somebody again ... Wes Anderson is hit or miss for me).

[schoolofruckus]

Darren Aronofsky? David O. Russell? *cough* Judd Apatow?

I never saw United '93. Like you with Jesse James, it's one that I always meant to but just never did. I need to get on that, though.

[schoolofruckus]

how is it wussing out to show how stupid people are when they aren't in a position where they feel forced to question their circumstance? pretty bleak if you ask me...

I thought it was wussing out to show dad getting pissed off and questioning God (in that great, Ang Lee-highlighted behind shot) and then turn around and say "I will build you a church even though I do not understand your plan". I didn't get how it enhanced the theme of faith being blindly adhered to in the best of times and abandoned in the worst.

[idrive1life]

Darren Aronofsky? David O. Russell? *cough* Judd Apatow?

DUH! Somebody is still missing ... *sigh* and *arrrrgh* I'm getting old lol

Spike Jonze?

Bingo! *and Spike Lee, I think* <- need to check if he is within those years

[schoolofruckus]

Spike Jonze?

[wmgaretjax]

I'll watch Virgin Spring again and try and do my best at a defense of it.

I hated United 93. It was meaningless, exploitive (not of victims, of sentiments by general public at the time), and a waste of time and money.

[schoolofruckus]

Bingo! *and Spike Lee, I think* <- need to check if he is within those years

Nope. Not even close (he started over 20 years ago). But he is generally pretty awesome, Inside Man aside.

[idrive1life]

Just checked that's right, Spike Lee has been directing for >20 years. I <3 him though.

[idrive1life]

DUH! He made Do The Right Thing and Malcom X (among his very best along with 25th Hour ... Bamboozled is so underrated) like ages ago ... 80s and early 90s respectively. lol There must be one (you hit the jackpot with Jonze but then I realized somebody is still missing) and I'm pretty sure it's not Allen or Altman or Kubrick. heh heh

Inside Man is one of my must-sees out of '06. I don't care about the reviews it got or whatever ...

Edit: It's not Sofia (I <3 LiT and liked VS but ...) and Sodenbergh (I liked Solaris and Traffic but he has so many misses). I'm all over imdb.com now looking lol

Ahhhhhhhhhh, I'm thinking of probably either Alexander Payne (Sideways, Election, About Schmidt) and Richard Linklater (Before Sunrise and Before Sunset are magnificent plus The School of Rock and Waking Life are also my favorites vs. among his many other mediocre films). But they have been directing for > 13 years now (however, all those movies I mentioned were made less than <13 years ago) and their outputs (lately) are not as exciting as Hanson, Jonze, Fincher, Tarantino, Wes Anderson's and though not American, Nolan's.

[schoolofruckus]

I'll watch Virgin Spring again and try and do my best at a defense of it.

I hated United 93. It was meaningless, exploitive (not of victims, of sentiments by general public at the time), and a waste of time and money.

I felt like that at parts of United 93, but by the end I felt like there was more to it. I was also fucking HAMMERED, watching it at like midnight the night before Coachella '06, so I put zero faith in any of my thoughts towards it. I just want to watch it cold again. I loved what Greengrass did with Bloody Sunday, so if anyone's doing a 9/11 film these days, I'd want to see his.

You don't have to watch The Virgin Spring again just for this purpose, I really don't care that much. It was a good film up until the ending, but that one and Seventh Seal (to a much greater degree) also felt stagey and unconvincing enough that they didn't work even as entertainment. This is why I take exception to Bergman bagging on Antonioni - Antonioni's films aren't "fun" by any stretch of the imagination (except maybe The Passenger), but they're so entrancing and life-like and authentically realized on their own terms that even if you don't put much thought into the meaning behind it, they still work as an absorbing narrative experience. Then you factor in the psychological depth and the cynical poetry of contemporary life, and you have some of the best films of all time. Those two Bergman films don't work nearly as well on either level, in my opinion.

[wmgaretjax]

Sunday Blood Sunday was great.

I can understand you feel that way about Bergman, I feel like it will change with Persona and Cries and Whispers.

[Yablonowitz]

Jesus Christ, Yabs, what's your beef recently? You put Tom in your avatar and your cocksucking tripled.

Sorry, it's just that you won't fucking shut up with your cockbragging talk. It's fucking nauseating and irritating to, I'm just guessing here, most people. Yeah, we get it. You like to be crude and purposefully say things that are blatantly hateful, sexist and depraved. I'm sure you must think it's some way of actually showing that you're not. But you've made too many generalities about how horrible you think women are for me not to believe you don't get a perverse thrill from spouting that shit. It's fine for a while, but, dude, you just yap and fucking yap and fucking yap that shit all day long. It's not very clever, nor very funny nor witty. It just makes you look like an asshole. And, yeah, right, you ARE an asshole. Anyway, it just got to the point of zero tolerance when you were spouting your fucked up vile shit in the middle of a discussion with Kitt Katt and her overly generalized and essentially bs argument about Judd Apatow.

I just wish you'd learn to rein some of your hateful shit sometimes, even if you feel all edgy and shit. It's irritating because at times you seem like a completely sensible, intelligent person. People don't say shit to you because you're exhausting to have an argument with and I'm sure I will too. I just think you ought to shut your fucking yapper so you're posting about half as much. Maybe less.

[RotationSlimWang]

Wow... it's like a time machine to six months ago...


How about go fuck yourself, Greg? Seriously. Go. Fuck. Yourself. I'm tired of your love/hate bullshit. You honestly give a fuck that I make rude comments to some fucking high school girl? HONESTLY? If so, that's your malfunction, not mine.

[wmgaretjax]

i would suck randy's dick... but only if he slapped me around a little first.

i know you won't approve mom... but you have to learn to accept me for who I am.

[RotationSlimWang]

Stop Jared--it's not appropriate to joke about things like that. Oh wait, if you're not a girl, then it's fine. Proceed.

[kitt kat]

[QUOTE=bmack86;352498]
But, The Seventh Seal is really entertaining to me.QUOTE]

one of my all-time favorite movies

[full on idle]

Sorry, it's just that you won't fucking shut up with your cockbragging talk. It's fucking nauseating and irritating to, I'm just guessing here, most people. Yeah, we get it. You like to be crude and purposefully say things that are blatantly hateful, sexist and depraved. I'm sure you must think it's some way of actually showing that you're not. But you've made too many generalities about how horrible you think women are for me not to believe you don't get a perverse thrill from spouting that shit. It's fine for a while, but, dude, you just yap and fucking yap and fucking yap that shit all day long. It's not very clever, nor very funny nor witty. It just makes you look like an asshole. And, yeah, right, you ARE an asshole. Anyway, it just got to the point of zero tolerance when you were spouting your fucked up vile shit in the middle of a discussion with Kitt Katt and her overly generalized and essentially bs argument about Judd Apatow.

I just wish you'd learn to rein some of your hateful shit sometimes, even if you feel all edgy and shit. It's irritating because at times you seem like a completely sensible, intelligent person. People don't say shit to you because you're exhausting to have an argument with and I'm sure I will too. I just think you ought to shut your fucking yapper so you're posting about half as much. Maybe less.

Amen. But I betcha eleventy million dollars he's not going to get it.

[kitt kat]

You honestly give a fuck that I make rude comments to some fucking high school girl?


for the last time
I'M NOT IN FUCKING HIGH SCHOOL

[RotationSlimWang]

Amen. But I betcha eleventy million dollars he's not going to get it.

...

So if she doesn't agree with you, she's not listening. Got it.

[RotationSlimWang]

for the last time
I'M NOT IN FUCKING HIGH SCHOOL

Well that's essentially why we're in the middle of this debacle--because these two old cunts have decided that it's just inappropriate to talk to a delicate young lady like yourself however I did. So tell them.

Bullshit reverse faggotry.

Also, get back to your Geometry homework.

[Calamity Jane]

Oh I get it now he's gonna hit on her.

[Deviate_420]

Signs is one of the best movies to come out in the last 10 years....

[kitt kat]

I don't think they're attacking you solely for that. From what they're saying, you're perhaps known for being a grade-A douchenugget.

But whatever. If it makes you feel good about yourself, who am I to stop you from insulting me?

[RotationSlimWang]

I don't think they're attacking you solely for that. From what they're saying, you're perhaps known for being a grade-A douchenugget.

But whatever. If it makes you feel good about yourself, who am I to stop you from insulting me?

Well, you're going to make a good wife. Congrats. =)

[Calamity Jane]

Wow.

Well, see you cocksuckers.

[kitt kat]

fucker.

[Deviate_420]

Kitt kat, your are clearly outnumbered and outgunned. I would go work on my Homework or something if I was you....

[RotationSlimWang]

FACE

[kitt kat]

i cant tell whether this is
all being sarcastic
or serious anymore

[RotationSlimWang]

Not serious. The idea was to make a point about what misogyny really is. Namely, not a Judd Apatow movie. In the process, I was hilarious, but that was unavoidable incident.

Then there were some cunts, and things got serious for a minute. But then they went away, and took the evil, misbegotten seriousness with them.

[idrive1life]

I am watching Ratatouille with my girlfried this weekend. After that I will be able to fully rate all the Pixar movies.
We are also watching Paris Je T'aime. Good idea? Bad idea?

Everything sounds good to me.

[kitt kat]

Not serious. The idea was to make a point about what misogyny really is. Namely, not a Judd Apatow movie. In the process, I was hilarious, but that was unavoidable incident.

Then there were some cunts, and things got serious for a minute. But then they went away, and took the evil, misbegotten seriousness with them.


thanks for the clarification :rolleyes:

and...PARIS JE TAIME IS AWESOME. the coen bros short is the best in the whole film, and the last one comes in a close second.

[idrive1life]

I also think you probably don't need to bother with Ratatouille...

I thought it was boring. A big step down from Incredibles.

Also, do you like Tarkovksy? Bela Tarr? You can't separate Antonioni from those guys (nor Bresson).

Good taste. good taste...

Thank you.

I need to know what's so good about Ratatouille. Though I've seen it got high review scores, I have no idea what it's all about. Re: animation films, I'm a big big fan of Miyazaki, Les Triplettes de Belville, Iron Giant and The Incredibles.

Of course, I also love Tarkovsky and Bresson (plus Renoir, Godard, Carne, Dreyer, Murnau, Fellini, Wilder, Polanski, Ozu, Rohmer, Ray, Eisenstein, Kieslowski ... those are some of my muses/heroes in films! Bela Tarr, yeah holy shit! Satantango etc. were almost at the top of my netflix or greencine queue when I made a sudden decision to spend all my money and time again on music ... seeing live gigs & even broadway plays.

[Deviate_420]

Signs is better then Ratatouille....

[Yablonowitz]

Wow... it's like a time machine to six months ago...


How about go fuck yourself, Greg? Seriously. Go. Fuck. Yourself. I'm tired of your love/hate bullshit. You honestly give a fuck that I make rude comments to some fucking high school girl? HONESTLY? If so, that's your malfunction, not mine.

I fuck myself regularly. It's not at all what you said to kit katt, it's the fucking shit you spew toward women in general. I'm not a PC cop, despite how you're going to play this. I do, though, think there are real, genuine women haters out there. And you sure as hell talk like one.

Sorry - the love/hate will continue. I can't quit you, but sometimes I can't stand you either.

[RotationSlimWang]

Yeah, well, I don't consort with the two-faced. So, get bent. Maybe if you didn't act like such a big twat you wouldn't take offense to my male chauvinist rhetoric.

[PotVsKtl]

I hope you all get fecal cancer and swell up like potbellys in an Alabama gasplain.

[Yablonowitz]

Great, thanks Wang. Now Pot's wished fecal cancer on ME.

And I'm not two-faced. You've got to unlearn what you have learned from your linear, absolutist education. Remember, a tree can be straight and crooked at the same time.

[bballarl]

Let's write a screenplay about it.

[schoolofruckus]

Thanks Andrew.

Today's been snappy day, and it's been a blast, but can we please stop letting the candy-ass middle school girl ruin the thread now?

[RotationSlimWang]

Let's write a screenplay about it.

This is the first funny thing Andrew's ever said. And it was REALLY funny.

[Somewhat Damaged]

Saw Beowulf in 3D last night and I was pretty stunned with how immersive the visuals made the film. For the most part, they made me forgive the routinely awful dialogue. (I was particularly annoyed that Beowulf announced that he had arrived to slay the monster no less than 6 times in a 90 second span towards the beginning of the film, and that he roared his name when he stabbed his way through that sea-monster's eye. What a douche. And who else chuckled when he said he'd come to taste the king's meat and the king's wife replied, "Many warriors from all over have come to taste my lord's meat"?) But yeah, despite the flaws in the script, the direction on the action scenes was pretty damn terrific. The tension when Grendel slaughters the villagers at the beginning was top notch and the climactic battle with the dragon should secure the film its Visual Effects Oscar. (If that doesn't do it, computer-generated nude Angelina Jolie will. Oh, baby!)

[schoolofruckus]

I think Beowulf is more likely to be nominated - and win - the Best Animated Feature award, since it's already been classified that way.

I still need to check it out in 3D.

[rage patton]

You dont think Ratatouille is gonna win?

[marooko]

I don't think they're attacking you solely for that. From what they're saying, you're perhaps known for being a grade-A douchenugget.

But whatever. If it makes you feel good about yourself, who am I to stop you from insulting me?

oh man!!! i thought douchenozzle was bad. douchenugget, fucking G-R-oss.

[schoolofruckus]

Please, nobody say anything to marooko and maybe he'll go away.

I don't know that Beowulf will beat Ratatouille; I just meant that it's going to compete as an animated film than as a live action film in the visual effects category.

[marooko]

Please, nobody say anything to marooko and maybe he'll go away.

I don't know that Beowulf will beat Ratatouille; I just meant that it's going to compete as an animated film than as a live action film in the visual effects category.

only an idiot would think ignoring a problem will make it go away.

[rage patton]

I don't know that Beowulf will beat Ratatouille; I just meant that it's going to compete as an animated film than as a live action film in the visual effects category.

Oh, I thought you were implying it would win. I guess I misread it. But yeah... I guess that would be kind of a tricky thing for them to do, because the whole movie was acted out, then animated over,right?
Also, is it actually good? The trailers didnt make me want to go see it at all.

[schoolofruckus]

You know, I haven't seen it. I keep hearing it's spectacular in 3-D and mezzo-mezzo otherwise. I also hated 300, which I can't deny this film bears a similar forecast to. I want to catch it sometime, but as always this time of year, there are so many things on the list. I think I'm finally going to catch Into the Wild tonight.

[schoolofruckus]

Early Sundance announcement:

Bold denotes ones that have my immediate interest.

DRAMATIC COMPETITION

“American Son,” directed by Neil Abramson (“Without Air”) and written by Eric Schmid, concerns a Marine’s four-day leave and his attempt at a romance before being sent into active duty. With Nick Cannon, Tom Sizemore and Chi McBride.

“Anywhere, U.S.A.,” directed by and starring Anthony (Chusy) Haney-Jardine and written by Haney-Jardine and Jennifer Macdonald, is an experimental, three-part feature about manners, prejudice and family dynamics.

“Ballast,” directed and written by Lance Hammer, offers a lyrical look at the effect of a tragedy on an impoverished family in the Mississippi Delta.

“Choke,” directed and written by Clark Gregg, is a raw mother-son comedy starring Sam Rockwell and Anjelica Huston, based on a novel by Chuck Palahniuk (“Fight Club”).

“Downloading Nancy,” directed by Johan Renck and written by Pamela Cuming and Lee Ross, is a very dark study of a terminally unhappy woman’s tortured love affair. Maria Bello, Jason Patric, Rufus Sewell and Amy Brenneman star.

“Frozen River,” directed and written by Courtney Hunt, stars Melissa Leo as a woman on New York’s Mohawk Reservation who takes up illegal-immigrant smuggling to survive.

“Good Dick,” directed and written by Marianna Palka, stars Palka as a vulnerable young woman drawn into a relationship with a videostore clerk.

“The Last Word,” directed and written by Geoff Haley, is an irreverent romantic comedy centering on a reclusive writer-for-hire of suicide notes. Winona Ryder, Wes Bentley and Ray Romano star in the ThinkFilm release.

“The Mysteries of Pittsburgh,” directed and written by Rawson Thurber (“Dodgeball”), is an adaptation of Michael Chabon’s first novel concerning sexual exploration and a tense father-son relationship. Jon Foster, Peter Sarsgaard, Sienna Miller, Mena Suvari and Nick Nolte star.

“North Starr,” directed and written by Matthew Stanton, concerns a Houston man who, after witnessing his best friend’s murder, moves to a backward rural town.

“Phoebe in Wonderland,” directed and written by Daniel Barnz, is an unusual coming-of-age tale about a girl (Elle Fanning) who takes her dysfunctional family on an unexpected journey. Felicity Huffman, Patricia Clarkson, Bill Pullman and Campbell Scott star.

“Pretty Bird,” directed and written by Paul Schneider, is an archetypal American story about three entrepreneurs whose partnership goes awry in nasty ways. Billy Crudup, Paul Giamatti, Kristen Wiig and David Hornsby star.

“Sleep Dealer,” directed by Alex Rivera and written by Rivera and David Riker, is a social commentary-infused sci-fier about three strangers who attempt to break through future technological barriers to connect in a world of closed borders and virtual labor.

“Sugar,” directed and written by Anna Boden and Ryan Fleck, features Algenis Perez Soto as a Dominican baseball star recruited to play in the U.S. minor leagues.

“Sunshine Cleaning,” directed by Christine Jeffs and written by Megan Holley, stars Amy Adams and Emily Blunt as sisters who try to climb out of poverty by working in biohazard removal and crime scene clean-up. Steve Zahn, Alan Arkin and Clifton Collins Jr. star.

“The Wackness,” directed and written by Jonathan Levine, is a comedy about a teen drug dealer (Josh Peck) who falls for the daughter of his drug-taking shrink (Ben Kingsley).Famke Janssen, Olivia Thirlby, Mary Kate Olsen and Method Man also star.

DOCUMENTARY COMPETITION

“An American Soldier,” directed and written by Edet Belzberg, looks at one of the U.S. Army’s top recruiters.

“American Teen,” directed and written by Nanette Burstein, is an irreverent, frank account of four Indiana high school seniors.

“Bigger, Faster, Stronger,” directed by Christopher Bell and written by Bell, Alexander Buono and Tamsin Rawady, follows three brothers (including the filmmaker) who use steroids.

“Fields of Fuel,” directed and written by Josh Tickell, follows Tickell as he takes on “big oil, big government and big soy” while proselytizing for energy alternatives.

“Flow: For Love of Water,” directed by Irena Salina, confronts the possibility that Earth’s supply of this essential liquid is dwindling.

“Gonzo: The Life and Work of Dr. Hunter S. Thompson,” directed by Alex Gibney, looks at the late author’s prime period of 1965-75 via previously unavailable home movies, audio recordings and unpublished manuscripts.

“The Greatest Silence: Rape in the Congo” is directed and written by Lisa F. Jackson, who traveled to the Congo war zones to record the testimony of rape survivors.

“I.O.U.S.A.,” directed by Patrick Creadon, is an examination of the United States’ precarious financial condition that also advances ideas to avoid national economic disaster.

“Nerakhoon” (The Betrayal), directed and written by Ellen Kuras and Thavisouk Phrasavath, is the culmination of a 20-year project to portray the struggle of the latter’s family to survive the impact of U.S. foreign policy in Laos and to understand his father’s involvement in the war.

“The Order of Myths,” directed and written by Margaret Brown, concerns the 2007 Mardi Gras in Mobile, Ala., where the event remains segregated.

“Patti Smith: Dream of Life,” directed and written by Steven Sebring, is a 12-year project that offers an intimate portrait of the poet-musician.

“Roman Polanski: Wanted and Desired,” directed and written by Marina Zenovich, focuses on the director’s decision to flee his legal problems in the U.S.

“Secrecy,” directed by Peter Galison and Robb Moss, investigates the world of government secrecy.

“Slingshot Hip Hop,” directed by Jackie Reem Salloum, looks at Palestinian rappers.

“Traces of the Trade,” directed by Katrina Browne, co-directed by Alla Kovgan and Jude Ray, written by Browne and Kovgan, is a fresh look at personal history by descendants of the largest slave-trading family in America.

“Trouble the Water,” directed by Tia Lessin and Carl Deal, incorporates the video diary of a young couple and family who struggled to survive post-Katrina despair and difficulty.

WORLD CINEMA DRAMATIC COMPETITION

There were 983 submissions from 15 countries in this category.

“Absurdistan” (Germany), directed by Veit Helmer, written by Helmer, Zaza Buadze, Gordan Mihic and Ahmet Golbol, concerns a sex strike by village women that threatens a young couple’s first night together.

“Blue Eyelids” (Mexico), directed by Ernesto Contreras, concerns the ramifications of a single woman’s winning of a beach trip for two.

“Captain Abu Raed” (Jordan), directed and written by Amin Matalqa, follows an aging airport janitor who relates tall tales to local kids who think he’s a pilot.

“The Drummer” (Hong Kong), directed and written by Kenneth Bi, is the story of a man who matures from reckless gangster to serious grownup due to the influence of Zen drumming.

“Elite Squad” (Brazil), directed by Jose Padilha (“Bus 174”) and written by Braulio Mantovani and Padilha, focuses on a special crime unit’s war against drug dealers in the run-up to the Pope’s visit to Rio. A Weinstein Co. release.

“I Always Wanted to Be a Gangster” (France), directed and written by Samuel Benchetrit, consists of four episodes in which aspiring hoods discover whether they’re up to a life of crime. Sergi Lopez and Jean Rochefort star.

“Just Another Love Story” (Denmark), directed and written by Ole Bornedal (“Nightwatch”), concerns the unanticipated effects on a family man of an auto accident that causes a woman’s amnesia.

“King of **** Pong” (Sweden), directed and written by Jens Jonsson, pivots on an acrimonious relationship between two young brothers.

“Megane” (Glasses) (Japan), directed and written by Naoko Ogigami, is a Zen comedy depicting a life change occasioned by a vacation at an odd beach community.

“Mermaid” (Russia), directed and written by Anna Melikyan, concerns a girl whose ability to make wishes come true hits reality when she goes to Moscow as a young woman.

“Perro Come Perro” (Dog Eat Dog) (Colombia), directed by Carlos Moreno and written by Alonso Torres and Moreno, is a crime drama about two hoods who sign their own death warrants when they bungle a job.

“Riprendimi” (Good Morning Heartache) (Italy), directed by Anna Negri and written by Negri and Giovanna Mori, centers on a married couple with a baby who are breaking up while a documentary is being made about them.

“Strangers” (Israel), directed and written by Erez Tadmor and Guy Nattiv, depicts a love affair between an Israeli man and a Palestinian woman during the World Cup finals in Germany.

“Under the Bombs” (Lebanon), directed by Philippe Aractingi and written by Aractingi and Michel Leviant, concerns a woman who engages a taxi driver to drive her through areas just bombed by Israel in 2006 in search of her sister and son.

“The Wave” (Germany), directed by Dennis Gansel and written by Gansel and Peter Thorwarth, looks at the unintended consequences of a teacher’s experiment to demonstrate what life is like under a dictatorship.

“The Wind and the Water” (Panama), directed and written by a collective, concerns two very different encounters between an indigenous teenage boy new to Panama City and an alluring girl from a wealthy family.

WORLD CINEMA DOCUMENTARY COMPETITION

There were 620 submissions from 10 countries in this category.

“Alone in Four Walls” (Germany), directed and written by Alexandra Westmeier, focuses on Russian teens whose life confined to a rural home for delinquents may be preferable to freedom.

“The Art Star and the Sudanese Twins” (New Zealand), directed and written by Pietra Brettkelly, concerns a woman’s obsessive desire to adopt Sudanese twin orphans, raising questions about Western attitudes concerning Africa.

“A Complete History of My Sexual Failures” (U.K.), directed by Chris Waitt and written by Waitt and Henry Trotter, follows the filmmaker as he consults the women in his life, past and present, to learn exactly how the opposite sex views him.

“Derek” (U.K.), directed by Isaac Julien, is an artistic illumination of the life and work of the late British filmmaker Derek Jarman.

“Dinner With the President” (Pakistan), directed and written by Sabiha Sumar and Sachithanandam Sathananthan, is an interview-driven report on the state of mind of Pakistanis.

“Durakovo: The Village of Fools” (France), directed and written by Nino Kirtadze, is a look at Russian nationalism through the activities of a right-wing leader training initiates at a castle near Moscow.

“In Prison My Whole Life” (U.K.), directed by Marc Evans and written by Evans and William Francome, probes U.S. history and the justice system through the case of death row inmate Mumia Abu Jamal.

“Man on Wire” (U.K.), directed by James Marsh, looks back at the 1974 stunt in which a Frenchman danced on a wire suspended between New York’s Twin Towers.

“Puujee” (Japan), directed and written by Kazuya Yamada, concerns a Japanese photographer whose subject is a girl who tames wild horses on the Mongolian plains.

“Recycle” (Jordan), directed and written by Al Massad, follows a man’s struggle to support his family in the tense hometown of Iraqi Al Qaeda leader Al-Zarqawi.

“Stranded: I’ve Come From a Plane That Crashed on the Mountains” (France), directed and written by Gonzalo Arijon, depicts survivors of the famous 1974 Andes plane crash telling their stories first-hand for the first time.

“Triage: Dr. James Orbinski’s Humanitarian Dilemma” (Canada), directed by Patrick Reed, follows former Doctors Without Borders head James Orbinski as he returns to Africa to assess the harsh conditions and explore the meaning of humanitarian work.

“Up the Yangtze” (Canada), directed and written by Yung Chang, is a portrait of a changing China through the experiences of young people from the Three Gorges Dam area who take jobs on a cruise ship.

“Women of Brukman” (Canada), directed and written by Isaac Isitan, is an account of how poor workers who take over a Buenos Aires clothing factory adjust to becoming self-managers.

“Yasukuni” (Japan), directed and written by Li Ying, probes the controversy surrounding Japanese officials paying homage at the Yasukuni shrine, where swords used to kill Chinese were forged.

[amyzzz]

re: Beowulf, I feel as ashamed about seeing Beowulf as I felt about seeing 300.

[schoolofruckus]

It's no better, huh?

[KungFuJoe]

Though I wouldn't say that Beowulf & 300 are of the greatest films ever made, they are certainly not the worst and they are the types of film I enjoy going to the theater for. They were easily two of the most marvelous cinematic experiences I have enjoyed all year. One thing I will say about both of these films is that they are way better than Transformers.

[amyzzz]

Both movies looked beautiful, but they didn't have any solid substance, nothing to engage my emotions. I forgot about them quickly (although that oracle scene in 300 was interesting if only for prurient reasons).

[schoolofruckus]

Transformers was so fucking much more enjoyable for me than 300, it's unbelievable. Loving, fetishizing shots of heads flying through the air is most certainly not what I go to the movies for.

One of my favorite disses of 300 was from my friend/Chris' roommate Nick, who said that if you projected the whole movie in real time, it would be about 45 minutes long.

[PotVsKtl]

Beowulf is worth seeing for the 3D. Also, it has Malkovitch. What did 300 have? Some fat terrorist.

[kitt kat]

thanks for posting that sundance list.

i'll be going for the first time this year, and i'm buying my individual screening tickets soon. So excited!

[schoolofruckus]

Were you planning on seeing Choke? I can't help but think that's going to be AWESOME. Granted, I don't see the guy from "Old Christine" creating a more visionary Palahniuk film than Fincher, but the book was great and the casting couldn't be better.

If they had the balls to do the book right, a lot of Trainspotting-bred male fantasies about Kelly MacDonald are about to be fulfilled.

[wmgaretjax]

Choke will be tough to get into. I'd love to see it.

I hated Sundance the year I went. Fucking awful festival (been to Seattle, Berlin, and Venice). I hope to make it to Toronto next year.

[schoolofruckus]

I bet Toronto is probably the best. Cannes would be fun, but I also can see enormous problems getting into screenings unless you're press or talent.

[mountmccabe]

The evening of Thanksgiving we watched Transformers with the RiffTrax (http://www.rifftrax.com/) commentary.

There were tears.

And my sister and her husband - who hadn't seen the film before - couldn't believe that people could watch it without the commentary.

[roberto73]

New Indiana Jones photo:

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/6908/indianajonesjq9.jpg

And the comic book nerd in me is getting all hot and bothered over this one:

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/3844/watchmenpk2.jpg

[bballarl]

Oh my God, THE WATCHMEN IS COMING.

(To clarify, I know it is not coming in the immediate future. But it is real. And Rorschach. Right there. In the picture. Although I can't see his face. Either way, the movie will have Rorschach. I love The Watchmen.)

[schoolofruckus]

Let's just say - circle March 6th, 2009 on your calendar.

[KungFuJoe]

I'm at work & finally just finished reading the WATCHMEN. Great read. I'm truly excited for the film adaptation now. Why wouldn't the movie have Rorschach?

I'm going to have to watch Transformers again now with that rifftrax commentary. I'm always down for a good laugh. As for me, I'll take a slow mo shot of heads flying in the air over frantically shot close ups of indiscernible metal robots any day of the week. Seeing the action > having no clue wtf is going on and getting a headache from it.

Choke should be awesome. I agree that the casting is perfect for that one. Sam Rockwell is one of the most underrated actors working today. Can't wait to see him lead this film. His performance in "Assassination of Jesse James" will probably sadly be overlooked by that of Casey & Brad's.

[bballarl]

I'm at work & finally just finished reading the WATCHMEN. Great read. I'm truly excited for the film adaptation now. Why wouldn't the movie have Rorschach?

I'm going to have to watch Transformers again now with that rifftrax commentary. I'm always down for a good laugh. As for me, I'll take a slow mo shot of heads flying in the air over frantically shot close ups of indiscernible metal robots any day of the week. Seeing the action > having no clue wtf is going on and getting a headache from it.

Choke should be awesome. I agree that the casting is perfect for that one. Sam Rockwell is one of the most underrated actors working today. Can't wait to see him lead this film. His performance in "Assassination of Jesse James" will probably sadly be overlooked by that of Casey & Brad's.

I just meant I wasn't sure if that was Rorschach in the picture.

[KungFuJoe]

I just meant I wasn't sure if that was Rorschach in the picture.


ah. got it. That most definately looks to be him.

[KungFuJoe]

Also, Gabe did you ever actually finishing watching 300? I remember in your early review you said you walked out halfway through, right? I could be misunderstand. Anyways, it's fine that you don't like it and I can understand why you don't. It also seems like it can be one of those films that you love to hate just because it's an easy target. I myself haven't seen it again since I went to see it on the Imax screen, but I remember thinking there wasn't as many slow mo & decapatation shots as some people complained about. I think some haters might embellish certain details. At the same time, this is not a film that I think deserves so much discussion, so I am sorry for that.

[schoolofruckus]

I never did finish it. With all the great shit I'm still unearthing, I see no reason to waste a film night on a movie that I felt had a repulsive first hour and showed absolutely no indicators of change in the second.

Maybe it is an easy film to beat up on, but that's because it's really, really bad and really, really huge - never a good combination (assuming that one thinks it's as bad as I do). But I would be done talking about it if not for the parallels to Beowulf. Maybe I'll start ripping on it again in 2 years when I watch Watchmen.

[Neutral Milk Hotel]

I'm at work & finally just finished reading the WATCHMEN. Great read. I'm truly excited for the film adaptation now. Why wouldn't the movie have Rorschach?

I just bought this book tonight. I wish I could share your enthusiasm for the adaptation. :-/

[KungFuJoe]

I never did finish it. With all the great shit I'm still unearthing, I see no reason to waste a film night on a movie that I felt had a repulsive first hour and showed absolutely no indicators of change in the second.

Maybe it is an easy film to beat up on, but that's because it's really, really bad and really, really huge - never a good combination (assuming that one thinks it's as bad as I do). But I would be done talking about it if not for the parallels to Beowulf. Maybe I'll start ripping on it again in 2 years when I watch Watchmen.

You definately do not need to waste your time in finishing 300, however what I liked most about the pic is the ending, in the way their final battle was tactically executed. It was the saving grace of the film for me.

[theburiedlife]

The watchman was introduced at comic-con by Zach Snyder. He denoted that there would be no mars scenes, something which has severely annoyed me. He better stick to the god damn story, or else heads will fly.

[Neutral Milk Hotel]

He'd better not change the fucking ending.

[bballarl]

He won't change the ending. He's not stupid.

No Mars scenes huh? Bummer.

[Neutral Milk Hotel]

The rational part of me knows he won't, but I am still pretty worried for this movie, it's too bad Aronofsky didn't end up making it.

[bmack86]

I just watched Days of Heaven. The movie is exquisitely filmed. The majority of it, which takes place in a wheat field, reminded me of a very fluid, evolving painting. It had the chance to be a static, very normal sort of film, but it becomes quite a bit more because of the great imagery, as well as the quick scene cuts that, rather than being jumpy, add to the fluid motion.
SPOILER
.
..
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
The shot where Richard Gere falls into the water after being shot is one of the greatest things I've seen on film. It looked absolutely fantastic, and portrayed his death much better than a bloody resolution.

[Stefinitely Maybe]

“Phoebe in Wonderland,” directed and written by Daniel Barnz, is an unusual coming-of-age tale about a girl (Elle Fanning) who takes her dysfunctional family on an unexpected journey. Felicity Huffman, Patricia Clarkson, Bill Pullman and Campbell Scott star.

Uh-oh... this sounds dangerously close to somebody trying to capitolise on the success of Little Miss Sunshine.

[J~$$$]

Are you going to do a top 10 list of 2007 films? I didnt see a 1/5th of the films that I wanted to this year, and I would like to see some of your top 10 suggestions.

[schoolofruckus]

I'll do a year-end review, of course. It's generally more than 10 movies, and this has been a better-than-usual year.

[full on idle]

I'm going to go see this tonight:

http://www.publicaffairsbooks.com/images/covers/9781586484477.gif
http://wwjbmovie.com/

[J~$$$]

hahahaha wwjb.

Im going to see Juno tonight.

[KungFuJoe]

I'll do a year-end review, of course. It's generally more than 10 movies, and this has been a better-than-usual year.


Would you say this has been the best year for American Cinema in the new millenium?

[schoolofruckus]

I would have to say absolutely. I think if I made a top 10 for the decade so far, I would probably put three films from this year on it. And it's also been a deep year with several standouts.

More Sundance:

PREMIERES

In addition to "In Bruges" and "CSNY Deja Vu," titles are:

"Assassination of a High School President," directed by Brett Simon and written by Kevin Jakubowski, a Catholic high school noir about a student journalist who uncovers a scandal. With Reece Thompson, Bruce Willis, Mischa Barton, Michael Rapaport, Kathryn Morris and Josh Pais.

"Be Kind Rewind," directed and written by Michel Gondry, a flight of fancy that concerns a man whose magnetized body erases all the tapes in a friend's videostore, whereupon they endeavor to remake such lost films as "Back to the Future," "The Lion King" and "Robocop." Toplines Mos Def, Jack Black, Mia Farrow and Danny Glover. A New Line Cinema release.

"The Deal" (Canada), directed by Steven Schachter and written by William H. Macy and Schachter, a romantic comedy about a suicidal vet Hollywood producer who cons a studio into making a big-budget pic without a script and starring a black action star newly converted to Judaism. Stars Macy, Meg Ryan and LL Cool J.

"Death in Love," directed and written by Boaz Yakin, centers on a 40-year-old bachelor with a complicated life who tries to sort out his personal relationships in the shadow of his mother's concentration camp experience. With Josh Lucas, Jacqueline Bisset and Adam Brody.

"Diminished Capacity," directed by Terry Kinney and written by Sherwood Kiraly, a dysfunctional family comedy that depicts a road trip taken by a man who wants to sell an ultra-rare baseball card to finance his uncle's waning years. Features Matthew Broderick, Alan Alda and Virginia Madsen.

"The Escapist" (Ireland), directed by Rupert Wyatt and written by Wyatt and Daniel Hardy, a dramatic caper about a lifer prisoner who hatches a clever escape with the help of some misfits so he can make peace with his ailing daughter. Brian Cox, Joseph Fiennes and Seu Jorge head the cast.

"The Great Buck Howard," directed and written by Sean McGinly, a road movie about a law school dropout who becomes personal assistant to a has-been magician trying to make a comeback. Produced by Tom Hanks, this Salt Lake City opening night attraction stars Colin Hanks, John Malkovich and Emily Blunt.

"The Guitar," directed by debuting helmer Amy Redford and written by New York indie stalwart Amos Poe, looks at a woman whose surfeit of bad news -- she's fired, dumped by her boyfriend and diagnosed with a terminal disease--causes her to quickly pursue her dreams. Features Saffron Burrows, Isaach De Bankole and Paz De La Huerta.

"Henry Poole Is Here," directed by Mark Pellington and written by Albert Torres, a study of faith and survival that centers on a man whose final days, which he wants to spend alone, are interrupted by a neighbor's discovery of a "miracle." With Luke Wilson, Radha Mitchell and Cheryl Hines.

"Incendiary" (U.K.), directed and written by Sharon Maguire ("Bridget Jones' Diary"), about the reactions of a young mother to a terrorist attack in London. Features Michelle Williams, Ewan McGregor and Matthew Macfadyen.

"The Merry Gentleman," directed by first-time helmer Michael Keaton and written by Ron Lazzeretti, which focuses on the unusual relationship between a woman who witnesses a murder and a depressed hitman. Toplines Kelly Macdonald and Keaton.

"A Raisin in the Sun," directed by Kenny Leon and adapted by Paris Qualles from the play by Lorraine Hansberry, a filmed TV version of the recent Broadway revival starring Sean Combs, Phylicia Rashad and Audra McDonald.

"Savage Grace," directed by Tom Kalin ("Swoon") and written by Howard A. Rodman, about the bizarre intimacy between a wealthy mother and her only child played out among the indolent rich in late '60s Europe. With Julianne Moore, Stephen Dillane and Eddie Redmayne. An IFC release.

"Sleepwalking" (Canada/U.S.), directed by Bill Maher and written by Zac Stanford, about a young man jolted into responsibility when his abandoned niece is threatened with life in a foster home. Features Nick Stahl, AnnaSophia Robb and Charlize Theron. An Overture Films release.

"Smart People," directed by Noam Murro and written by Mark Jude Poirier, about a self-involved literature professor forced to examine his life when his brother unexpectedly turns up. Stars Dennis Quaid, Sarah Jessica Parker, Thomas Haden Church, Ellen Page and Ashton Holmes. A Miramax release.

"Towelhead" (formerly known as "Nothing Is Private"), the feature directorial debut of writer Alan Ball ("American Beauty," "Six Feet Under"), which charts an Arab-American girl's tricky journey through adolescence and early sexuality in Texas. Warner Independent release toplines Aaron Eckhart, Maria Bello, Toni Collette and Summer Bishil.

"Transsiberian" (Spain), directed by Brad Anderson and written by Anderson and Will Conroy, a revival of the classic train murder mystery genre set aboard a journey from China to Moscow. Stars Woody Harrelson, Emily Mortimer, Kate Mara, Thomas Kretschmann, Eduardo Noriega and Ben Kingsley.

"U2 3D," directed by Catherine Owens and Mark Pellington, a 3-D concert pic of U2's "Vertigo" tour shot at seven different shows.

"The Visitor," directed and written by Tom McCarthy, explores the growing connection between a college professor and an immigrant couple he discovers occupying his Manhattan apartment. Features Richard Jenkins, Hiam Abbass, Haaz Sleiman and Danai Gurira. An Overture Films release.

"What Just Happened?," directed by Barry Levinson and written by Art Linson, an inside-Hollywod comedy about a producer trying to keep sane while beset by his difficult director, star, executive, agent and second wife. Features Robert DeNiro, Bruce Willis, Sean Penn, Catherine Keener, Stanley Tucci and John Turturro.

"The Year of Getting to Know Us," directed and written by Patrick Sisam, a dysfunctional family comedy about a commitment-phobe whose sick father helps him make sense of his own childhood. With Jimmy Fallon, Chase Ellison, Lucy Liu, Sharon Stone and Tom Arnold.

"The Yellow Handkerchief," directed by Udayan Prasad and written by Eric Dignam, about a former con's encounter with two disillusoned young folk on the road in Louisiana. Toplines Maria Bello, William Hurt, Eddie Redmayne and Veronica Russell.

SPECTRUM

Dramatic Section

"August," directed by Austin Chick ("XX/XY") and written by Howard A. Rodman, about a dotcom entrepreneur coping with the market collapse of August 2001. Stars Josh Hartnett, Adam Scott and Naomie Harris.

"Baghead," directed and written by Mark Duplass and Jay Duplass ("The Puffy Chair"), a comedy in which two couples intent on writing the great American screenplay find their log cabin retreat stalked by a man with a bag on his head. With Steve Zissis, Ross Partridge and Greta Gerwig.

"Birds of America," directed by Craig Lucas and written by Elyse Friedman, which focuses on the gathering of three neurotic siblings at the family manse. Features Matthew Perry, Ginnifer Goodwin and Ben Foster.

"Blind Date," directed by Stanley Tucci and written by Tucci and David Schechter, a remake of the Dutch film by the late Theo van Gogh about a married couple who, having suffered a tragedy, are only able to relate to one another as different characters through personal ads. With Tucci, Patricia Clarkson and Thijs Romer.

"Bottle Shock," directed by Randall Miller and written by Jody Savin and Miller, which centers on the world of California wine making and the infamous "Judgment of Paris" blind wine tasting event of 1976. Stars Alan Rickman, Bill Pullman and Chris Pine.

"Chronic Town," directed by Tom Hines and written by Michael Kamsky, a dark comedy about a substance-abusing taxi driver during an Alaskan winter. With JR Bourne, Emily Wagner and Dan Butler.

"Goliath," directed by David Zellner and Nathan Zellner and written by the former, a look at a man who hopes to find salvation by locating his missing cat after his entire life has collapsed around him. Features David Zellner, Caroline O'Connor and Nathan Zellner.

"A Good Day to Be Black & Sexy," directed and written by Dennis Dortch, an art film comprised of six vignettes about sexuality and relationships among blacks in Los Angeles. With Kathryn Taylor, Valley Jones and Chonte' Harris.

"Love Comes Lately" (Germany/Austria), directed and written by Jan Schutte, about the active love life of an 80-year-old man, based on Isaac Bashevis Singer stories. Toplines Otto Tausig, Rhea Perlman and Tovah Feldshuh.

"Momma's Man," written and directed by Azazel Jacobs, an offbeat portrait of a man whose attitudes toward his wife and child change after being forced to stay with his parents. With Flo Jacobs, Ken Jacobs and Dana Varon.

"Quid Pro Quo," directed and written by Carlos Brooks, an unusual look at a paraplegic radio reporter who becomes interested in a mysterious woman while researching a story about able-bodied people who secretly yearn to be paralyzed. Stars Nick Stahl, Vera Farmiga and Kate Burton.

"Red," directed by Trygve Diesen and written by Stephen Susco, a genre piece about a man who seeks justice after three teenagers shoot his old dog. Features Brian Cox, Tom Sizemore and Kim Dickens.

SPECTRUM

Documentary Spotlight

"Anvil! The True Story of Anvil," directed by Sacha Gervasi, a mockumentary-like true account of fiftysomething Canadian heavy-metal practitioners Robb Reiner and Lips who, after a desultory European tour with their band Anvil, decide to record a 13th album in a final attempt to fulfill their boyhead dreams of stardom.

"The Black List," directed by Timothy Greenfield-Sanders and written by Elvis Mitchell, in which journo Mitchell interviews numerous black leaders from different fields to take the temperature of black America today.

"Kicking It," directed and written by Susan Koch, about an assortment of homeless people whose lives are changed by participating in the Homeless World Cup soccer match in South Africa.

"The Linguists," directed by Seth Kramer, Daniel Miller and Jeremy Newberger and written by Miller, about two linguists who travel the world documenting languages on the verge of extinction.

"Made in America," directed by Stacy Peralta ("Dogtown and Z-Boys," "Riding Giants") and written by Peralta and Sam George, a comprehensive history of the Crips and Bloods street gangs of South Los Angeles.

"Where in the World Is Osama Bin Laden?" (France), directed by Morgan Spurlock and written by Jeremy Chilnick and Spurlock, a search by the filmmaker for the elusive terrorist.

"Young@ Heart" (U.K.), directed by Stephen Walker, in which a senior citizens' choir performs tunes by classic and contempo pop musicians.

NEW FRONTIER

"Casting a Glance," directed and written by James Benning, an experimental look at the Spiral Jetty, Robert Smithson's enormous sculpture that has evolved over 30 years in conjunction with the ebb and flow of the Great Salt Lake.

"Eat, for This Is My Body" (France/Haiti), directed and written by Michelange Quay, a meditation on racial conquest and liberation in Haiti. With Sylvie Testud.

"Fear(s) of the Dark" (France), directed by Blutch, Charles Burns, Marie Callou, Romain Slocombe, Pierre Di Sciullio, Lorenzo Mattotti and Jerry Kramsky, an animated feature comprising six works by graphic artists and cartoonists addressing their phobias and nightmares.

"Half-Life," directed and written by Jennifer Phang, about a family confronting hidden issues against the backdrop of impending global cataclysms.

"Reversion," directed and written by Mia Trachinger, in which a woman genetically stripped of morality tries to continue her romance with a man.

"Seven Intellectuals in Bamboo Forest, Parts 4 and 5," a collection of the most recent shorts by artist Yang Fudong, which focus on seven thinkers in the ancient Chinese Wei and Jin dynasties.

PARK CITY AT MIDNIGHT

"Adventures of Power," directed and written by Ari Gold, a comedy about the struggles of a small-town dreamer to become the world's great air-drummer. Stars Adrian Grenier, Jane Lynch and Jimmy Jean-Louis.

"The Broken," directed and written by Sean Ellis, a horror item that commences when a woman on a London street sees herself driving by in her own car. Toplines Lena Heady, Richard Jenkins and Asier Newman.

"Donkey Punch" (U.K.), directed by Olly Blackburn and written by Blackburn and David Bloom, about the fallout among several young adults on a yacht in the Mediterranean after one of them dies in a freak accident. Features Robert Boulter, Sian Breckin and Tom Burke.

"Funny Games," directed and written by Michael Haneke, an American remake by the Austrian filmmaker of his own 1997 shocker. Stars Naomi Watts, Tim Roth, Michael Pitt and Devon Gearhart. A Warner Independent release.

"George A. Romero's Diary of the Dead," directed and written by Romero, in which students making an indie horror film suddenly find themselves trapped with real zombies. With Nick Alachiotis, Matt Birman and George Buza.

"Hell Ride," directed and written by Larry Bishop, a biker revenge pic, presented by Quentin Tarantino, that's a homage to '60s AIP chopper mellers. Toplines Larry Bishop, Dennis Hopper and Michael Madsen.

"Otto; or, Up With Dead People" (Germany/Canada), directed and written by Bruce LaBruce, in which a lonely gay zombie searches for love and meaning in contempo Berlin. With Jey Crisfar, Katharina Klewinghaus, Susanne Sachsse and Marcel Schlutt.

"Timecrimes" (Spain), directed and written by Nacho Vigalondo, a sci-fier about a man who meets himself when he travels back in time, precipitating a terrible crime. Features Karra Elejalde, Candela Fernandez and Barbara Goenaga.

[wmgaretjax]

FUNNY GAMES. Jesus I can't wait for that film.

[KungFuJoe]

that sucks that Be Kind Rewind is playing Sundance. I was hoping to get to see it much sooner.

[schoolofruckus]

I'm pretty jacked up for Towelhead myself. I can't believe Warner Bros. is letting that title fly.

The trailer for the new Funny Games is awesome.

[bballarl]

I remember hearing about "Be Kind Rewind" awhile back and wanting to see it. Too bad I probably won't until its on DVD.

[Neutral Milk Hotel]

Tonight, I saw The Savages. I really enjoyed it. It felt almost like an observation, like nothing more than an account of a certain time in the lives of these characters. There aren't any tearful revelations, any big plot twists, just this brother and sister and their father, and the complex, imperfect relations between them. There are hints that the father treated the kids abusively/neglectfully when they were young, but we don't get the whole huge confrontation where the sins of the father are brought out into the open by the damaged children. It has some funny moments and some serious moments, but I wouldn't really call it a comedy or a drama, because it has the unpredictability of (again) real life, where sometimes we laugh, sometimes we cry, sometimes we get angry and say things we regret, etc. Some might say the ending is a little pat, but it worked for me, although I thought the last shot was pushing it a little.

[Neutral Milk Hotel]

hahahaha wwjb.

Im going to see Juno tonight.

Speaking of that movie, I just made a lengthy post on criterionforum about my reservations about it and thought I might post it here, maybe it will generate some interesting discussion.

I'll preface this by saying that I haven't seen the film, only the trailer. I do know things about the general path the plot takes. So, this is by no means a definitive judgment and is probably not so fair to the movie, but I intend to see it with an open a mind as possible, so whatever.

The thing that bugs me about this is, from the trailer, it almost seems like the Juno character is something of an indie kid pin-up girl--she's sassy, quick-witted, precocious, cute in that left-of-center way, etc. However, I don't get the sense that this character is going to have any significant flaws, or any serious conflicts over her situation. Take, for example, the scene where she tells her parents about the pregnancy, which is available as a clip. This is what she tells them:

I'm pregnant. But I'm gonna give it up for adoption, and I already found the perfect couple, they're gonna pay for the medical expenses and everything, and in 30-odd weeks we can just pretend that this never happened.
(Dad: You're pregnant)
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, and if it is any consolation, I have heartburn that is radiating to my kneecaps, and I haven't taken a dump since... Wednesday...morning.

The first part of it works, I guess, but would any 16-year-old, hipster or not, really go into the heartburn thing? It feels more like a screenwriter's construct than anything authentic. I get the feeling that I won't get much out of this film if the main character is going to quip her way through her life crises. Again, maybe I'm reading it completely wrong, if so someone who has seen it can correct me.

A good way to look at it is to contrast it with Rushmore, a personal favorite of mine. One of the reasons the movie is a success is that Anderson/Wilson aren't afraid to depict Max Fischer in a less than flattering light. I'll quote the dialogue below, taken from a copy of the script I'm looking at online. I think the wording might be a little different in the film but it plays out the same way:

"MAX: You honestly believe you love Blume instead of me?
MISS CROSS: Yes.
MAX: Stop. If you don't stop with that ****-pong talk, I'm going to lose it. Do you understand me?

Max takes Miss Cross' hand and kisses it. She pulls her and away. Max tries to embrace her. They struggle and Miss Cross overpowers Max. She holds his arms behind his back.

MAX: Let me go!

Max struggles some more. Miss Cross pushes him hard across the room. Max smashes into some chairs and knocks over a desk. He yells at her:

MAX: I got kicked out because of you!
MISS CROSS: You got kicked out because -
MAX: Rushmore was my life. Now you are!

Silence.

MISS CROSS: What do you really think is going to happen between us? You think we're going to have sex?

Max looks shocked.

MAX: That's kind of a cheap way to put it, don't you think?
MISS CROSS: Not if you've never fucked before, it isn't.
MAX: Oh, my God.
MISS CROSS: How would you put it to your friends? Do you want to finger me? Or maybe I could give you a hand job in the back of a Jaguar. Would that put an end to all of this?

Miss Cross moves towards Max with her hand outstretched. Max retreats backwards, banging into desks and chairs. Miss Cross stops.

MISS CROSS: Please. Get out of my room.

Max walks out of the room and stands in the doorway.

Miss Cross turns away and goes back to taking down her maps from the wall. Max watches her for a minute.

Max leaves. "

This is a scene that's crucial to the film's success. Rushmore takes place in Wes Anderson's trademark melancholic fantasy world (perhaps less so than his later films), but this scene, above all others, establishes a believable and relatable interpersonal dynamic. Max's personality and actions affect other people, something this scene makes very clear. Up to this point in the film, we're kind of charmed by his enthusiasm and drive (with a few exceptions), but the scene makes us painfully aware of the immaturity of his infatuation with Miss Cross and the unpleasant side of his personality and some of the actions he takes. We watch the "A Quick One While He's Away"/revenge sequence and laugh at Max cutting Blume's brakes, but the accomplishment of the exchange between Max Cross is not only to kind of illuminate that some of the things Max has done are kind of inappropriate and transgressive, but that the movie is aware of the fact that the actions were inappropriate. This makes some of the outlandish aspects of the movie more acceptable, since it defines this as a world where actions have consequences, where people can be selfish and hurt other people, where everything doesn't turn out alright in the end. It also makes Max's coming of age more poignant.

This kind of turned into more of a rambling note about one of the reasons that I love Rushmore than anything about Juno, but returning to that film, I don't get that vibe at all, that it will have anything resembling the Rushmore scene. I mean, look at the part from the trailer with her parents talking about the whole deal. Maybe I'm taking it way too literally and they're joking around, but the father says that he would rather have his daughter get busted for a DWI or get into hard drugs than get pregnant. What believable parents in any movie universe ever would rather have their child either A. break the law and endanger lives by driving while under the influence of alcohol or B. develop a serious addiction to drugs? Especially when she has made the reasonably mature decision to give the child up for adoption, and has already found someone to give the child to? If this is a movie where serious issues are going to be addressed with nothing more than eccentric, jokey dialogue, then its effectiveness will be limited. I'm not saying the movie should be some sort of PSA about the consequences of unprotected sex or teen pregnancy, but if Juno herself doesn't seem to be all that bothered by the human being inside of her, how can I be bothered to care about what happens to her, or any of the characters?

[bmack86]

I saw Juno last night. Around the end of that scene you're describing, I was worried about the same thing. By the end, I was thoroughly charmed, and greatly enjoyed the film. it's twee as all hell, and doesn't have gooey happiness at the end.

[Neutral Milk Hotel]

Okay, then, I'll keep that in mind. I'm sure I'll end up seeing, that many ecstatic reviews usually aren't (completely) wrong, but it's not what I would call a top priority, with finals coming up and a lot of other films coming out. And I'll admit that part of my trepidation is probably just being burned out with this seeming new movement in the independent film world of quirky movies about growing up.

PS: Where did you see it? I wasn't aware they were holding any more early screenings in Los Angeles.

[schoolofruckus]

Yeah, there's two screenings of Juno next Tuesday alone. I could go to either one, but I'm leaning towards hitting the screening of Blade Runner: The Final Cut instead.

[Yablonowitz]

Didn't you see "Into the Wild" last night?