Countries you don't want to visit

[WastedTime]

Zimbabwe... enough said.

[Courtney]

Somalia. Sudan. Uganda.

[Courtney]

Iraq. Afghanistan.

[clarky123]

I dont want to visit India or Afganistan. They are too dangerous.

[zenidogx]

Myanmar
Georgia

[Courtney]

Pakistan. Venezuela. Haiti.

[clarky123]

Pakistan...agreed but also Nepal or China. Top That!

[algunz]

My brother and his fiance went to Venezuela this summer. They had a great time.

[TickleMeElmo]

South Africa or Colombia.

Colombia, you'll probably get kidnapped and the cops are the fucking worst. South Africa is bad too to the point where women are allowed to run red lights so they don't get car jacked.

[stinkbutt]

I know it's not a country but Dubai. I forget where I was reading but some couple got 20 years cuz they got caught fucking on the beach.

[clarky123]

Tanzania and Zambia...hate the fuckers!

[Courtney]

I'd say Venezuela is borderline, along with Colombia or Congo or Lebanon.

[menikmati]

I would like to visit central/latin america, but maybe not, because I do want bot flys making their home in me...

[Courtney]

Pakistan...agreed but also Nepal or China. Top That!

I loved visiting China, and would definitely visit Nepal if given the opportunity.

Generally, I check up on countries at http://travel.state.gov/travel/ before booking any travel. I find it to be a reliable resource.

[chairmenmeow47]

i would go anywhere in the world if i had the opportunity prolly, but i would pretty much only be leery of countries where the whole having tits + opinions thing gets you stoned.

[marooko]

US.

[zenidogx]

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_2876.html

[stinkbutt]

ha ha haha ha

[shakermaker113]

it's entirely circumstancial. I am most curious about the really dangerous places people have mentioned. colombia for instance is said to be stunning. but wouldn't dare travel there unless I was with someone who really knew the place and could take me around. so whether I want to go or not it really depends on the conditions in which I would be visiting.

much like wanting anything.

[chiapet]

Uhm... wouldn't like to travel to pretty much any of the -stan's.

In a year and a half I am hopefully going to Libya, Algeria, Egypt, Turkey, Israel and Eritrea though. :)


I know it's not a country but Dubai. I forget where I was reading but some couple got 20 years cuz they got caught fucking on the beach.

Yes, but people who are stupid enough to fuck in public in a Muslim country probably deserve to go to prison. :) I'd actually really like to visit Dubai some day, and the UAE is much more progressive than most of its neighbors. Have a lot of friends from there. They are not as proper as you'd think. :)


Also, I know quite a few people who've visited South Africa in the last year or so, no one reported any problems and they really liked it.... I think it has a lot to do with where you go though and what level of safety you require.

[Courtney]

it's entirely circumstancial. I am most curious about the really dangerous places people have mentioned. colombia for instance is said to be stunning. but wouldn't dare travel there unless I was with someone who really knew the place and could take me around. so whether I want to go or not it really depends on the conditions in which I would be visiting.

much like wanting anything.

I agree with wanting to visit Colombia because it's supposed to be beautiful, which is why I referred to it as being border-line. However, hearing first-hand stories from Colombian friends whose families chose to flee the country leaving behind friends and much of their non-liquid assets, due to fear of various narco-terrorist groups, makes me think that even having someone who "really knows the place" would not be enough in this case.

[SoulDischarge]

Whackistan. Because, y'know, it's whack.

[frozen pilgrim]

Zimbabwe... enough said.

my family on my dad's side had a farm there. I lived there for a month when I was like, nine or ten. unspeakably beautiful place. what's happening is a tragedy.

mugabe's wife took the farm for herself with its' two hydroelectric dams, three villages, game reserve, and wind farm, and fired/displaced the 30,000 people who lived and worked there. now, like the rest of the country, it's rotting away.

[boarderwoozel3]

South Africa

I'd go for the 2010 World Cup. But I've heard the larger cities are very sketchy.

Somalia
Liberia
Algeria
Angola

Do not want.

[frozen pilgrim]

South Africa is bad too to the point where women are allowed to run red lights so they don't get car jacked.

how incredibly fucking ignorant.

south africa is my second home. in the big cities it's no more dangerous than new york or los angeles. and everywhere else in the country, it's the fucking cradle of existence. it's the most ecologically diverse country on earth, spanning SIX distinct biozones and it's also the most linguistically diverse country on earth with six national languages.

this is where my grandparents live. like, this exact place. it's where I stay when I'm there, and where I plan to get married

http://www.natures-valley.com/images/natval4.jpg

[frozen pilgrim]

this is the quick walk over the sand dunes to the indian ocean. check out the sunlight whiting out the camera and the ocean clipping the microphone. it gives me such intense flashbacks
yWNZUIa1vSg&eurl=http://naturesvalleymonitor.blogspot.com/

[humanoid]

Bolivia...

my cousin and his girlfriend were murdered there about 15 years ago...not even robbed, just gunned down in the street

[frozen pilgrim]

sorry to be annoying, but you totally can't fuck with this shit:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_-9GTKh284n0/SSzKXMZlphI/AAAAAAAAACg/dc-2NpnQOVc/Hopeful.jpg

[fatbastard]

Mexico.

[WastedTime]

In a year and a half I am hopefully going to Libya, Algeria, Egypt, Turkey, Israel and Eritrea though. :)


I hope your going with people, for me when I was really curious about religion in '07 I went with a sociology group to isreal/saudi/egypt... and basically came home faithless and disliked commercial governments influence on the areas.
If you go, just talk to some of the people and look at the irrative daily life for them, expect nothing but tragedy.

Azjerbaijan and Georgia, are easily my favorite places I have been in the world. Possibly Hungary, but only because I was there when gyurcsany was being thrown out, the first real riot I have ever witnessed/participated in.

[TomAz]

Canada.

[chiapet]

going with people but not a 'group' really (i wouldn't go to any of the middle eastern or african countries alone as a female... most likely).

[bmack86]

I can't think of too many countries I wouldn't want to visit at all. There's a draw to almost all of them. I feel, however, that if some of the more dangerous countries share very similar ecosystems and/or cultural backgrounds as other, safer countries, visiting the safer ones would be an adequate replacement.

The place I most want to visit is the Amazon in Brazil. Just get lost in the lushness.

[TickleMeElmo]

I kinda had a feeling someone was gonna piss someone off, I just didn't think it would be me.

[bmack86]

You probably didn't piss him off. Frozenpilgrim is just like that.

[frozen pilgrim]

no, actually that DID piss me off. where do you live?
oh, alaska. gee, I bet everyone there rides "snow machines", has an oil well in their backyard, own a minimum of a dozen high-powered rifles, thinks they can see russia, voted republican, and I also hear that in alaska, women get dragged around by the hair.

"South Africa is bad too to the point where women are allowed to run red lights so they don't get car jacked."

what fucking gigantic pile of ignorant did you crawl out of?

[anti-square]

Too early to internet argue.

[MassiveChemicalPunk]

In El Salvador we live in trees :)

[gaypalmsprings]

New Mexico

[comiddle]

Of the countries listed by others, I can only place a couple in the "Do not want to visit" column. And even then, it's more of a "Want to visit when our countries are out of there".

[orbit]

i've been a couple of times in colombia and it's one of the most beautiful places i've ever been. i'd be back in a second if i had the money/time.

[disgustipated]

Here's an interesting tidbit for you Frozen...


South Africa has a high rate of violent crime (the world's highest for rape, and second-highest for murder)

http://wikitravel.org/en/South_Africa
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

what fucking gigantic pile of ignorant did you crawl out of?

[bleep]

the "axis of evil" - Iran, Iraq, and North Korea.
and East Timor.

[shakermaker113]

http://photos4.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/9/a/0/6/highres_4359430.jpeg

"Afghanistan, Albania, Burma, Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, and Saudi Arabia. Some were selected because of their human-rights abuses; Libya because it has done absolutely everything wrong; Afghanistan for harboring terrorists; and Albania simply because it's an example of a little dictatorship that cut itself off from the outside world at considerable cost to its own people. Wheeler posits that his book is not an account of the Most Dangerous Places because he's "careful, cautious, and has a low tolerance for pain."

[orbit]

i think central america is in my 'do not want to visit now but perhaps sometime later' list. mosquitoes + hot weather is not a good combination for me. add the border peru-brazil to the list for the same reason.

[gaypalmsprings]

http://www.ihatepc.com/images/axis.jpg

[chiapet]

Libya isn't as bad as it used to be. If I go, it'll be across the shore from Egypt to Tripoli, on my way to Tunisia. Most cities are dangerous in the sense that if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, you could be harmed. You're still more likely to be killed in a car accident within your own state though than blown up by a terrorist. :)

[TomAz]

appart.


opperations.

[TomAz]

I dont want to visit India or Afganistan.

I have been to India on four separate occasions and never had any problem, nor did I see anyone else have any problems. About the worst thing I have experienced there is that sometimes the Indians don't smell too good. Oh and the way they drive is fucking insane.


South Africa

oh man. I would love to go to South Africa. it's on my top 10 'where to go next' list.

[frozen pilgrim]

Here's an interesting tidbit for you Frozen...




http://wikitravel.org/en/South_Africa
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

what fucking gigantic pile of ignorant did you crawl out of?

you left out the disclaimer on your bullshit statistics

UN-crime survey sates: "The statistics cannot take into account the differences that exist between the legal definitions of offences in various countries, of the different methods of tallying, etc.Consequently, the figures used in these statistics must be interpreted with great caution. In particular, to use the figures as a basis for comparison between different countries is highly problematic."

honestly, why the fuck would I even try with this board full of retarded americans? guess who has the highest per capita prison population? does that mean the US has more criminals per capita? god damn. I honestly can't believe that after someone offers firsthand accounts and personal experience, that you, disgustipated, would be a two-bit playground trolling little piece of shit bitch and keep trying to insult a country that has dedicated itself to upholding human rights and correcting injustice more fervently in the last two decades than any nation in the history of the earth. twenty years ago, the country WAS dangerous. segregated, and oppressed. now, a genuine democracy is in power, and the majority is being represented. they still have a ways to go, but it's insanely ignorant statements like "women are allowed to run red lights so they don't get carjacked" that hold developing countries back. like I said before. in the major urban centers, you run the same risks as in ANY big city, and as such, you should exercise common sense. but I feel safer walking through cape town than I do walking through say, the diamond exchange district of downtown LA, or anywhere in new york at night.

tomaz, I highly encourage you to visit south africa. it's NOT dangerous. just about every single person you meet on the street is smiling all the time. you'll be smiling too. just physically being in that country makes you appreciate life and humanity and freedom. the air is sweeter, everything is brighter and richer, and everyone has hope for the future.

[canexplain]

no, actually that DID piss me off. where do you live?
oh, alaska. gee, I bet everyone there rides "snow machines", has an oil well in their backyard, own a minimum of a dozen high-powered rifles, thinks they can see russia, voted republican, and I also hear that in alaska, women get dragged around by the hair.

"South Africa is bad too to the point where women are allowed to run red lights so they don't get car jacked."

what fucking gigantic pile of ignorant did you crawl out of?

i drove the trans canadian hwy all the way from the left coast to the right coast ... canada is like the US there are some meh places and some of the most beautiful places i have ever been too .... some of the nicest people and some real turkeys (see monteral, ya dont speak French, forget it) .... so I say, visit our neighbor canada, and i bet you will be happy you did ... and hey Tom, yea i have always heard the South Africa has some of the best surfing there is, and I never made it :( ... too late .... cr****

[canexplain]

afternoon Pilgrim, I went to a class in Toronto for almost two weeks years ago.... we went downtown to whatever the centre is called, and it was like mardi gras at 1200 at night even though it was freezing .... one of my fav big cities that I have been too .... just sayin for me any way ... cr****

[frozen pilgrim]

ron, any time you want to visit either toronto or south africa, you've got a place to stay!

[Alchemy]

Mexico. Believe you me, it's not the way it was ten, even five, years ago. At least that is the case with Juarez.

On the other hand, I'd like to go to Somalia and captain my own pirate ship. It'd be a sail boat though, and the pirates would have cutlasses, not guns.

[disgustipated]

you left out the disclaimer on your bullshit statistics

I didn't leave out shit. I posted links.



I honestly can't believe that after someone offers firsthand accounts and personal experience, that you, disgustipated, would be a two-bit playground trolling little piece of shit bitch and keep trying to insult a country that has dedicated itself to upholding human rights and correcting injustice more fervently in the last two decades than any nation in the history of the earth.

Your so-called first hand accounts and personal experiences were nothing more than pictures and youtubes.

Where are you getting this shit from? I never insulted South Africa, i've actually been and enjoy it. This doesn't change the well known fact that South Africa had and still has a high crime rate.

Do you have tourette's? There is something seriously wrong with you. You are constantly flying off the deep end over stupid bullshit. Your blood pressure must be off the charts.

[shakermaker113]

my mother was friends with a family who had just moved to california from south africa when I was in high school. I don't remember much but one story that my mother told, how she took the mother of the family to the supermarket right after she had arrived. she freaked out when my mother tried to get out of the car in the parking lot. the idea of walking from your car to the supermarket entrance without being escorted by a security guard scared her.

I'm not saying I know south africa. I don't. so don't freak out at me frozen pilgrim, but please explain why she might have felt that way.

[Courtney]

I sincerely hope things have changed in the past couple years in South Africa, but I too have heard similar stories from friends who used to live there.

[frozen pilgrim]

that's exactly right. it used to be awful, and it's always improving. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's no more dangerous than new york, LA, or DC.

and the youtubes and pictures are from the place I stay when I'm there. so what if I didn't take them, they're experiences identical to mine.

[shakermaker113]

last time I checked new york, LA and DC don't need security guards to walk people from their cars to the supermarket. do they still do that in south africa? I'm guessing it's only certain parts of the country, but I don't know.

[bug on your lip]

how incredibly fucking ignorant.

south africa is my second home. in the big cities it's no more dangerous than new york or los angeles. and everywhere else in the country, it's the fucking cradle of existence.



i googled "south africa crime" and also searched that term in news.google

good lawd....
how is the internets all wrong and frozen pilgrim is right?

[bug on your lip]

honestly, why the fuck would I even try with this board full of retarded americans? .

A more targeted and systematic approach is needed to tackle the high levels of crime in South Africa, says Safety and Security Minister Nathi Mthethwa.

He said it was broadly recognised that crime was one of the key challenges facing South Africa.



http://allafrica.com/stories/200812020667.html

fukkin Americans posing as South African Security Ministers and promoting this bullshit...
i'm with you on this frozen

[canexplain]

do i look that scary gang .... i go to the worst parts of everywhere i go just to see what it is like, and no one ever gives me a hard time .... maybe they think i am looking for drugs and they dont want to hurt the business lol .... cr****

[Mr.Nipples]

rand mcnally

[bug on your lip]

i go to the worst parts of everywhere i go just to see what it is like, and no one ever gives me a hard time .... cr****

i think it's because you are already dead

[Mr.Nipples]

detroit...rock city

[wmgaretjax]

I can't think of too many countries I wouldn't want to visit at all. There's a draw to almost all of them.

I completely agree with this. And a little bit of danger in a country is certainly no reason to write it off. If you travel smart, you will probably be OK. There are some extreme exceptions, but most of the places people are listing here are incredibly reasonable places to visit and even live. And to the person that listed India, WTF?

I've been to several of the countries listed here and in none of them did I feel in more substantial danger than in others... And I consider myself a fairly adventurous traveler.

I think some of my scariest experiences were in Jakarta, Indonesia during the economic crisis, however I knew the language and despite having to hide under a jacket on the back of motorcycle a couple times when riding through some of the muck, I stayed safe.

But that was nothing compared to what it was like in Aceh when the massacres were going on there, I remember being holed up in our house and freaking out every time I heard a car drive by. Makassar had some similar situations after the second elections where students would overturn cars and block streets and beat up people that didn't have identification that indicated they were muslim. Twice I had to get off a bus and book it through back roads to avoid road blockages.

However, all of those experiences were short-lived and circumstantial... I would never write off a country in general because of stories I'd heard, because context is really fucking important. As far as random acts of crime or violence are concerned, some of my worst experiences have been in Australia and the US... Go figure, I've never been robbed in any country but those two...

[canexplain]

detroit...rock city

ever been to river rouge mr nipples? a long time ago i hung there ? we used to set the detroit river on fire "just to see it burn" now there was a ruff place ... and bug, tnx a lot :) i am more alive then some people here anyway ..... cr*****

[Mr.Nipples]

cant say that i have. detroit...
eminem and icp and kidd rock
car births
cecil fielder
sheet metal
trailer parks
kiss

[canexplain]

cant say that i have. detroit...
eminem and icp and kidd rock
car births
cecil fielder
sheet metal
trailer parks
kiss

yea you said it all but then we go back to that is not the sum of its parts ... if you go to the UP, it is way fucking cool .... cr****

[bug on your lip]

I think some of my scariest experiences were in Jakarta, Indonesia during the economic crisis, however I knew the language and despite having to hide under a jacket on the back of motorcycle a couple times when riding through some of the muck, I stayed safe.

However, all of those experiences were short-lived and circumstantial... I would never write off a country in general because of stories I'd heard, because context is really fucking important. As far as random acts of crime or violence are concerned, some of my worst experiences have been in Australia and the US... Go figure, I've never been robbed in any country but those two...

dayymmmm... Indonesia is hard core

[WastedTime]

yea you said it all but then we go back to that is not the sum of its parts ... if you go to the UP, it is way fucking cool .... cr****

canexplain, you ever been to detroit electronic music festival?

[WastedTime]

dayymmmm... Indonesia is hard core

Yea, America... not in an economic crisis, maybe in the sense of economic profit, but were simply at a stage of currency competition where other have potential to rival our growth.
But you still have your job, kids, home on your head, and gas is only $2/gallon.

How many of you have fought for survival, excluding you druggies =).?

[wmgaretjax]

dayymmmm... Indonesia is hard core

Not really. Nicest people in the world, it was just a point in history when a bunch of things came to a head at once...

[faxman75]

Pilgrim, i'm on your side as well. South Africa is where I am hoping to go for the world cup and to explore the beautiful region. Lots of ignorance in this thread. Fuckin' americans.

Haiti would really be sad. I would be working my ass off to feed those poor people. I want to go to Estonia to see my people (the atheists).

[DruggyFestivalGuy]

Amsterdam is sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet

[emtgreg]

Actually every person I know who has visited South Africa INSISTS its the most beautiful and amazing place in the world.

Its the pesky news media that keeps telling me that its scary as fuck...

As for places I would avoid?

Any place that I would require kidnapping insurance to visit :)

[faxman75]

Someone warned about Juarez Mexico and it's only getting worse.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081206/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_mexico_deadly_reporting

[Gonshman]

My school generally takes the Spanish classes on day trips down to the border towns, and now they are saying it has just gotten too dangerous. The drug cartels are taking over the country.

[canexplain]

canexplain, you ever been to detroit electronic music festival?

no i have friends that went, but seems i am always hitting the fests that are farther south the Michigan, which isnt too hard .. is it good?.. cr****

[orbit]

i went to juarez for a few days in 2004 and it was really bad. women were found dead pretty much every day. scary shit.

[bug on your lip]

Actually every person I know who has visited South Africa INSISTS its the most beautiful and amazing place in the world.

Its the pesky news media that keeps telling me that its scary as fuck...



and those pesky South African Safety and Security Ministers

[boarderwoozel3]

Safety is not inherent in beauty. I'm sure South Africa is stunning but safety-wise, calling it no worse than DC, LA or NYC is just silly. Any search whatsoever will tell you that while South Africa has drastically improved since it started holding democratic elections, the violent crime rates are still a big problem.

[WastedTime]

no i have friends that went, but seems i am always hitting the fests that are farther south the Michigan, which isnt too hard .. is it good?.. cr****

So many beautiful ladies, of a ages for you :thu, but yeah.

Most incredible djing talent their, Winter music has nothing on demf.
Its in dirty ass Detroit though, but great music.

[whynotsmile99]

[QUOTE=chiapet;852357]Uhm... wouldn't like to travel to pretty much any of the -stan's.

In a year and a half I am hopefully going to Libya, Algeria, Egypt, Turkey, Israel and Eritrea though. :)



be careful about when you go to Israel. If you go to Israel before the other countries, make sure they DO NOT stamp your passport. From what I understand, you will not be allowed into most Islamic countries with an Israeli stamp in your passport. You can tell them not to stamp it and you should be good

[faxman75]

I saw a movie about Africa. They force you to dig looking for diamonds and if you don't do it they cut off your arms.

Don't go there. They will destroy you.

[boarderwoozel3]

Leonardo DiCaprio :nono

[blakely]

this is the quick walk over the sand dunes to the indian ocean. check out the sunlight whiting out the camera and the ocean clipping the microphone. it gives me such intense flashbacks
yWNZUIa1vSg&eurl=http://naturesvalleymonitor.blogspot.com/


that looks exactly like crystal cove state park in laguna.
so disappointing.

[canexplain]

[QUOTE=chiapet;852357]Uhm... wouldn't like to travel to pretty much any of the -stan's.

In a year and a half I am hopefully going to Libya, Algeria, Egypt, Turkey, Israel and Eritrea though. :)



be careful about when you go to Israel. If you go to Israel before the other countries, make sure they DO NOT stamp your passport. From what I understand, you will not be allowed into most Islamic countries with an Israeli stamp in your passport. You can tell them not to stamp it and you should be good

i dont plan on traveling over there anytime soon, but what a great "things you should know", never even crossed my mind .... cr****

[faxman75]

I would never go to korea, that's just based on my experiences in small grocery stores and laundry chains here in the us though.

[canexplain]

I would never go to korea, that's just based on my experiences in small grocery stores and laundry chains here in the us though.

i went there twice for high school basketball games , it was ok but coming in from japan, and being a kid, I didnt appreciate the differences .... cr****

[frozen pilgrim]

I honestly can't believe that some peole on this board are so fucking stupid that they won't listen to me about SA.

I've spent large amounts of time there on multiple occasions. my grandparents live there. I showed you an aerial photo of their house. but no, don't listen to the real opinions and experiences of a real person, just read 'news' on the internet and assume it's factual, contextual, and not sensationalist in the slightest

[kingsblend420]

i think central america is in my 'do not want to visit now but perhaps sometime later' list. mosquitoes + hot weather is not a good combination for me. add the border peru-brazil to the list for the same reason.

Dont believe the hype, its just fine. I haven't seen any mosquitos at all. But I am sure theyare out there. And, its not that hot either.

[canexplain]

I honestly can't believe that some peole on this board are so fucking stupid that they won't listen to me about SA.

I've spent large amounts of time there on multiple occasions. my grandparents live there. I showed you an aerial photo of their house. but no, don't listen to the real opinions and experiences of a real person, just read 'news' on the internet and assume it's factual, contextual, and not sensationalist in the slightest

oh pilgrim, someone could post that they are in heaven and it is perfect, then a group would come around and say how it sucks because you cant cuss or something off the wall .... and like i was dogging real talk about SF (and he is from there so i will go with Most of what he says about there), going somewhere, esp living in a place has one up on any internet buzz ..... and of course you have a place to crash if you are ever in my part of the woods too .... cr****

[shakermaker113]

I honestly can't believe that some peole on this board are so fucking stupid that they won't listen to me about SA.

I've spent large amounts of time there on multiple occasions. my grandparents live there. I showed you an aerial photo of their house. but no, don't listen to the real opinions and experiences of a real person, just read 'news' on the internet and assume it's factual, contextual, and not sensationalist in the slightest

calm down.

maybe people aren't listening because you haven't explained the reports we are hearing. I don't recall you trying to explain, all I've really heard from you is "that's not true, I've been there", which honestly is not a very strong arugment.

some of the things we have said have been stories from other people who have lived there, or grown up there. and while news on the internet isn't 100% factual but it's not 100% fiction either. if you'd offer some rational explanation rather than just getting upset and suggesting the whole internet is wrong, we'd be more inclined to listen.

[SoulDischarge]

I hear that puppies are considered contraband in South Africa because they have the potential to bring joy to their citizens. Any puppies that they find are publicly executed and their heads are stuck on stakes as a warning. Also, rape.

[faxman75]

It really stinks over there and the poverty is so bad, I can't stand those kinds of people.

[Backwater]

Exactly shakermaker. So far basically all he's done is say, "I've been there, trust me." Well sorry pilgrim but your word isn't good enough, in fact, in this thread your word kinda sucks. Making ridiculous statements like this one really doesn't help your case.

a country that has dedicated itself to upholding human rights and correcting injustice more fervently in the last two decades than any nation in the history of the earth.

[frozen pilgrim]

I have explained. but I'll say it again. the level of danger from things like murder, rape, carjacking, etc, are the same as in places like downtown LA, new york at night, DC... those are not places you'd want your daughter out unaccompanied. but that's only a danger in the maybe six or seven urban centers in the country. the vast majority of the country is pure, unadulterated nature in all its glory.

I guess to elaborate, most people's incorrect opinions are based on exaggerations of old facts. in the 1990s, south africa, specifically cape town, had a high carjacking rate. but on the flip side of things, guess how many meth labs blew up.

frankly, the biggest danger you face while driving from cape town to plettenberg bay is getting jumped by a fucking baboon if you're outside your car at the roadside or (god forbid) you're stupid enough to try to feed one. chacs will FUCK YOU UP. don't fuck with baboons. don't leave food otuside your car, don't feed them, don't piss outside alone at the roadside. honest to god, that's the biggest issue.

and in regards to the human rights statement:
if you knew anything about south africa's history, you'd know that the story of that nation from the 1960s to now is one of the greatest triumphs of human spirit in history. ever heard of nelson mandela? the abolition of apartheid? good lord, how old are some of the people on this board? backwater, you're an ignorant tool. open a book. learn some history.

[Backwater]

So .... tourette's?

[SoulDischarge]

I'd rather be forced to eat my own vomit multiple times than visit South Africa.

[Backwater]

You'd have to be an ignorant tool not to visit South Africa.

[SoulDischarge]

You'd have to be an ignorant tool not to eat your own vomit.

[Backwater]

Touche

[frozen pilgrim]

good. don't go. you'll never know what you're missing.

fax/tomaz:
the 'garden route', table mountain, and addo national park will take you through five ecozones and two oceans, some of the world's best wineries, some of the most dramatic landscape on earth... it really can't be adequately described with words.

[WastedTime]

good. don't go. you'll never know what you're missing.

fax/tomaz:
the 'garden route', table mountain, and addo national park will take you through five ecozones and two oceans, some of the world's best wineries, some of the most dramatic landscape on earth... it really can't be adequately described with words.

aurora borealis of far northern canada(o yea, I did a trek) >>> South Africa, but yeah, people who have been talking shit about south africa are analyzing a countries landscape with previous political turmoil.
So if your letting political/race/gender issues determine whether or not you would like to explore an area or sway your personal opinion, you fit so well into the flaw of democracy and feed mobocratic politics.

[frozen pilgrim]

I suppose as a canadian I have a tendency to ignore the beauty of my own country sometimes

[canexplain]

i know this thread is for countries you dont want to visit, but as far as going somewhere you want too ..... new zealand .... i think every friggin movie i see that has breathtaking sights, when i read the credits, it says NZ, ... there is a dude at my work from there and he gets pissed when people ask him how is australia yada yada ...... he does talk sort of funny :) .... pilgrim, do you have an accent that you know of ? i dont seem to notice it here lol cr*****

[menikmati]

South Africa is home to De Beers, so fuck them.

[canexplain]

South Africa is home to De Beers, so fuck them.

and the US is home of mcdonalds , which has fucked up the world more ...... just sayin ...... cr****

[menikmati]

I'll take McD's over De Beers.

[frozen pilgrim]

and you live in california

[faxman75]

good. don't go. you'll never know what you're missing.

fax/tomaz:
the 'garden route', table mountain, and addo national park will take you through five ecozones and two oceans, some of the world's best wineries, some of the most dramatic landscape on earth... it really can't be adequately described with words.


I want you as my guide. Sounds fucking wonderful.

[allyjoy]

and the US is home of mcdonalds , which has fucked up the world more ...... just sayin ...... cr****

people don't go chopping off limbs because someone wants a big mac... just sayin

[faxman75]

I suppose as a canadian I have a tendency to ignore the beauty of my own country sometimes


I think people tend to do this wherever they are from. Any place can get old after a while and people don't take advantage of the things around them because they are too busy with life. I know so many people that are natives of arizona but never have seen the damn grand canyon. Sad. Funny thing is I have hiked it multiple times as a teen but never as an adult since I have moved here. It's on my list. I have taken full advantage of my proximity to weekend destinations like San Diego, L.A., Vegas and Mexico though, which was the main reason I moved here to begin with.

I love travel as much as if not more than listening to music, which is why I love music fests, it's kind of the best of both worlds.

[faxman75]

people don't go chopping off limbs because someone wants a big mac... just sayin

You ain't never been to the McDonalds on the west side of Chicago then. ;)

[frozen pilgrim]

if you people genuinely think that south africa looks like something out of a world vision infomercial, if you actually think there's big open diamond mines full of little children who have their arms chopped off for stealing, you're fucked out of your mind.
and even if that WERE the case, how is that any worse than prostitutes being killed, rejected immigrants dying offshore in boats, tens of millions of people being imprisoned, or any of the other things that are fucked up about the US or any first world nation. I'm bewildered and disappointed in the ignorance and immaturity of some of the people on here. you know who you are. you're seriously fucking retarded.

fax, I'd be glad to guide you. I'm really hoping to be over there in 2010 for the world cup.

my uncle john has been working on this program leading up to the world cup on the premise that the nation shouldn't be able to hold the games unless every single child in the country has a pair of cleats, a ball, and somewhere safe to play, which is infinitely more than can be said about canada. I can't explain the program properly, so here's the site. I'm honored to be related to john perlman.

http://www.dreamfieldsproject.org/

[Backwater]

if you people genuinely think that south africa looks like something out of a world vision infomercial, if you actually think there's big open diamond mines full of little children who have their arms chopped off for stealing


That's exactly how I was picturing it.

[allyjoy]

FP, I'd go to South Africa before I'd see Canada again. Does that make you feel better?

[SoulDischarge]

Well excuse me for preferring cheeseburgers to AIDS.

[menikmati]

if you people genuinely think that south africa looks like something out of a world vision infomercial, if you actually think there's big open diamond mines full of little children who have their arms chopped off for stealing, you're fucked out of your mind.
and even if that WERE the case, how is that any worse than prostitutes being killed, rejected immigrants dying offshore in boats, tens of millions of people being imprisoned, or any of the other things that are fucked up about the US or any first world nation

I never said anything of children being killed in diamond minds...I just have no interest whatsoever in visiting the country that supports and is home to one of the most fucked up companies in the world, while the rest of the continent and its countries are pretty much starving, and caught in endless civil wars, that's all.

[frozen pilgrim]

there are some parts of canada that should be avoided at all costs. ever heard of winnipeg?

[frozen pilgrim]

Well excuse me for preferring cheeseburgers to AIDS.

that's actually not funny.

I'm glad this thread happened. some of you fucking cretins are showing your true colors.

[canexplain]

FP, I'd go to South Africa before I'd see Canada again. Does that make you feel better?

me thinks that is not the way to placate pilgrim .... cr**** and on mcd, i eat there all of the time, so it goes, but more people have died a slow death because of them then the aforesaid ......

[canexplain]

i think we decided here last night my color is translucent ...... cr****

[SoulDischarge]

A slow, delicious death.

[menikmati]

me thinks that is not the way to placate pilgrim .... cr**** and on mcd, i eat there all of the time, so it goes, but more people have died a slow death because of them then the aforesaid ......

Oh man, I'm not gonna get involved in some huge McD vs. De Beers argument, but if anyone really believes and wants to blame McD's on people's death instead of their own personal responsibility, then go ahead.....at least McD let's other fast food chains exist...

[allyjoy]

Frozen, the argument was that someone didn't want to go to a country that supports the exploitation of its citizens without providing anything to them. You cannot argue that while South Africa is one of the more politically stable nations on the continent of Africa, it remains entrenched in the politics of those who colonized it, delegating the indigenous people to second class status (eventhough apartheid ended in the early 90s). I understand you want to tell us about the topography of the nation, but the lives of the people who live there are fucked for various reasons. So get off your high horse of how outraged you are, and accept that there are places people don't want to go.

[allyjoy]

at least McD let's other fast food chains exist...

I had to quote it.

[menikmati]

Frozen, the argument was that someone didn't want to go to a country that supports the exploitation of its citizens without providing anything to them. You cannot argue that while South Africa is one of the more politically stable nations on the continent of Africa, it remains entrenched in the politics of those who colonized it, delegating the indigenous people to second class status (eventhough apartheid ended in the early 90s). I understand you want to tell us about the topography of the nation, but the lives of the people who live there are fucked for various reasons. So get off your high horse of how outraged you are, and accept that there are places people don't want to go.
Exactly, thank you.

[faxman75]

You guys are taking this all way to seriously. First of all these children have TWO fucking arms to start with so it's not like they will be armless.

As long as Leo gets the girl at the end, who cares?

[canexplain]

Oh man, I'm not gonna get involved in some huge McD vs. De Beers argument, but if anyone really believes and wants to blame McD's on people's death instead of their own personal responsibility, then go ahead.....at least McD let's other fast food chains exist...

naw i dont want to fight either, but one more small point .... it is hard to make a dinner cheaper then you can get at mcd ... a couple of $1 burgers and water and you are good to go .... it is our choice, you are right, but they make it so cheap and easy, people dont think or cant afford some fresh fruit and some veggies..... cr****

[bmack86]

I'm not sure how well I can phrase all this because I don't feel like writing too eloquently, but I did guided research under a professor who grew up working with the ANC in South Africa. He still has a house there, and lives there 6 months a year, and I was studying South African history and politics with him. He told me that it's still dangerous. Not as much as it used to be, but you can't take a governing minority who based their whole politic on racial superiority, replace them in leadership and expect that all of a sudden things are going to be just fine. There are many, many instances in South African of Boer racial attacks still, and I imagine that the people whose friends moved over here are probably Boers, hence their tension. Sure, much of their feelings of threat are probably imagined because of all the horrible things they did over the years and the ensuing guilt and paranoia, but the fact remains that the country would be recognized by anyone as more dangerous than somewhere like America or Canada. And saying that outside the urban centers it's safe is all good and fine, but you can say that for almost anywhere. If I go into the Mojave desert or into the Sahara, I'm not going to be too worried about being mugged because, guess what? There aren't that many people in these areas. In the areas of higher population density, South Africa is just simply not as safe. Yes, it's gotten better, but all you have to do is look back to earlier this year when South Africans were forcibly extracting Zimbabweans after they fled when Mugabe was elected. In the townships, racial attacks were on the rise due to fear of job loss as a result of the emigration.

I would love to visit South Africa. I would go there knowing that I'd have to take precautions for my safety in some areas, and also knowing that most of the places I'd visit I'd be in more risk from natural threats than from human (wilderness is dangerous, y'all. Snakes and lions'll fuck you up). And, FrozenPilgrim, I'm sure that you've had nothing but good experiences in the country but discounting cold hard facts is ridiculous. South Africa is ranked as the second highest center of violent crime for a developed nation in the world according to UN surveys. The UN isn't some major conspiracy to make the country look bad.

[bmack86]

naw i dont want to fight either, but one more small point .... it is hard to make a dinner cheaper then you can get at mcd ... a couple of $1 burgers and water and you are good to go .... it is our choice, you are right, but they make it so cheap and easy, people dont think or cant afford some fresh fruit and some veggies..... cr****

And Ron, they still make the choice. You can get a bag of rice and chicken breasts and feed yourself for less overall than it would cost to eat at McDonalds. Mostpeople just don't want to.

[frozen pilgrim]

like I've said a million times. in the urban centers, it's dangerous. just like the dangerous urban centers in ANY country. just for different reasons. you're no more likely as a tourist to be hurt in south africa than you are in the US.

[bmack86]

All the statements except the last are completely sound. The higher crime rate states that you are more likely to be hurt. Is it going to happen? Not likely if you're smart, if you don't go places you shouldn't when you shouldn't, and if you think before you act. But, higher crime rate does mean it's more likely.

[frozen pilgrim]

and I don't think those statistics have any bearing on the experience of people who visit the country, just like people flock to the states despite the fact that there are more people imprisoned there than anywhere else on the planet. more people per capita, more people period. the US also leads the world in executions.

[TomAz]

fax/tomaz:
the 'garden route', table mountain, and addo national park will take you through five ecozones and two oceans, some of the world's best wineries, some of the most dramatic landscape on earth... it really can't be adequately described with words.

that's nice and all. and I like wine and I've had some good SA wines. but if I fly 12000 miles I better see some fucking lions and shit. just sayin.

[shakermaker113]

frozenpilgrim, don't get so agitated. I don't recall anyone saying anything as extreme as you seem to have interpreted from our posts. we're repeating what we've heard, and we never claimed to take what we hear at face value (you have continually reacted as if we do).

if you would explain why we might have the impressions we do you might get your point across. if you get upset and insult us for believing the only things we've heard about south africa -- in some cases from people who have lived there -- you're not going to convince anyone.

your point about it only being in the urban centers is fine. (although nobody claimed every square inch of the country was dangerous...). you still haven't provided any evidence that urban centers there are not more dangerous than urban centers in the US. bmack's points certainly suggest otherwise.

[frozen pilgrim]

what proof do you have that they are, other than highly inaccurate, outdated statistics?
I don't have any burden of proof. some idiot said something shockingly ignorant about women being allowed to run red lights so they don't get carjacked, and a bunch of people say ridiculous stuff about diamond mines... I'm not going stat hunting. I have nothing to prove, because it doesn't affect me one bit if you never go. I hope you don't. because none of you deserve the experience. I hope you all continue to live your lives based on racism, ignorance, and devout belief in anything you read that looks "official"

[bmack86]

and I don't think those statistics have any bearing on the experience of people who visit the country, just like people flock to the states despite the fact that there are more people imprisoned there than anywhere else on the planet. more people per capita, more people period. the US also leads the world in executions.

What? Where the hell did you get the crazy idea that the US leads the world in executions? That's China, with 472 executions reported in 2007, although the assumed number is more in the 1000s due to the way they conduct themselves. Also, Iran is number 2, Pakistan 3, Iraq 4 and Sudan 5.

As far as imprisonment, you don't just go there. You don't get assaulted on the street and suddenly wind up in jail. You break a law, knowing that a potential consequence for your actions is that you could be incarcerated. Sure, lots of the laws are pathetic, but tourists don't just get imprisoned, but they can just get mugged, robbed and killed. The two are completely different.

[frozen pilgrim]

you're right about the executions. although I suppose nobody's spoken about the dangers of visiting china.

but yeah. I see that you get my point about tourists being in a certain amount of danger ANYWHERE. the point I"m trying to get across is that for the average person, i.e. for you or I or anyone on this board that chose to visit south africa, they're no more at risk of bodily hard than someone visiting the states from england is. find me statistics that say otherwise.

[frozen pilgrim]

but honestly, I'm out of this thread. I'm sick of defending my fucking second home, the place most of my family lives, to a bunch of closed minded idiots. like I said before, I hope everyone just believes whatever they want and never come near SA. I don't want you brainless pieces of shit stinking up the place

[bmack86]

China's dangerous more for citizens because of the oppressive nature of the government. It's getting more dangerous for tourists, but from what I've heard most of the country is still safe enough that even if you don't speak a lick of chinese, everyone will help you with whatever. I have a friend who lived there for 6 years and he said that when he first moved there he couldn't speak the language at all, and didn't understand the monetary system (why move there if you can't survive was my question) and he said that if you put something you wanted to purchase on a counter and opened your wallet, the cashiers would take exact change. It's just not always safe to live there if you don't agree with the government

[TomAz]

lions. i wanna see lions. and rhinos. and giraffes and shit.

[bmack86]

but honestly, I'm out of this thread. I'm sick of defending my fucking second home, the place most of my family lives, to a bunch of closed minded idiots. like I said before, I hope everyone just believes whatever they want and never come near SA. I don't want you brainless pieces of shit stinking up the place

You do realize that you come across as the close minded idiot with all of your arguments, right? You have to back up an argument rather than just explode at people who don't agree with you in order to have a discussion. Which is what we were trying to do.

j1ueB9Wz2vA

[Stainofmind]

Saudi Arabia

[SoulDischarge]

Aw shit yo. He brought out the Minor Threat.

[wmgaretjax]

China was incredible last time I was there (almost 5 years ago). A friend of mine just moved to Shanghai to work for Google and he's loved it so far... I've spent so much time in Asia that I would like to spend a significant amount of time somewhere else (south america or the middle east), but I would go back there in a heartbeat if an opportunity presented itself... Especially Japan and Indonesia.

I remembered I saw some pretty gnarly stuff in Thailand too... But that was mostly because I was hanging out with a bunch of crazy fucking Thai punks... Those kids like knives in a baaad way.

[mattpach]

how incredibly fucking ignorant.

south africa is my second home. in the big cities it's no more dangerous than new york or los angeles. and everywhere else in the country, it's the fucking cradle of existence. it's the most ecologically diverse country on earth, spanning SIX distinct biozones and it's also the most linguistically diverse country on earth with six national languages.

this is where my grandparents live. like, this exact place. it's where I stay when I'm there, and where I plan to get married

http://www.natures-valley.com/images/natval4.jpg

That looks amazing

I am hoping that I can study abroad in South Africa

[TickleMeElmo]

some idiot said something shockingly ignorant about women being allowed to run red lights so they don't get carjacked...

OK, let me reword that then. Women are advised to roll through red lights at night on deserted streets to avoid being carjacked (or hijacked as they call it there) since it's a big problem there. Shocking? I'd say so. Ignorant? Unless you wanna disprove tons of other peoples personal accounts.

[faxman75]

I am hoping that I can study a broad in South Africa

I wanna study this one!

http://helektron.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/scarlett_johansson.jpg

[shakermaker113]

what proof do you have that they are, other than highly inaccurate, outdated statistics?
I don't have any burden of proof. some idiot said something shockingly ignorant about women being allowed to run red lights so they don't get carjacked, and a bunch of people say ridiculous stuff about diamond mines... I'm not going stat hunting. I have nothing to prove, because it doesn't affect me one bit if you never go. I hope you don't. because none of you deserve the experience. I hope you all continue to live your lives based on racism, ignorance, and devout belief in anything you read that looks "official"

but honestly, I'm out of this thread. I'm sick of defending my fucking second home, the place most of my family lives, to a bunch of closed minded idiots. like I said before, I hope everyone just believes whatever they want and never come near SA. I don't want you brainless pieces of shit stinking up the place

fucking bitter. we ask for explanation and you feel the need to insult us.

I give up.

[stinkbutt]

it's frozen what do you expect

[frozen pilgrim]

what you're saying is simply not true.
it WAS true. in the 1990s, especially in cape town, it was advisable not to stop in your vehicle. man or woman. south africans even invented under-door-mounted anti-carjacker flamethrowers. but that's really not an issue anymore, unless you're planning to be rolling around alone at night in dilapidated parts of urban centers, and that's not advisable in ANY populous area. in other parts of the world you could get kidnapped, or robbed, or pickpocketed in that scenario. but would it be fair to advise others not to visit those places based on stereotypes of negative events that only happen to the most careless and dimwitted of tourists?

[menikmati]

what proof do you have that they are, other than highly inaccurate, outdated statistics?
I don't have any burden of proof. some idiot said something shockingly ignorant about women being allowed to run red lights so they don't get carjacked, and a bunch of people say ridiculous stuff about diamond mines... I'm not going stat hunting. I have nothing to prove, because it doesn't affect me one bit if you never go. I hope you don't. because none of you deserve the experience. I hope you all continue to live your lives based on racism, ignorance, and devout belief in anything you read that looks "official"

The only person who is generalizing, stereotyping, and saying ridiculous stuff about diamond mines is you.

[allyjoy]

what you're saying is simply not true.
it WAS true. in the 1990s, especially in cape town, it was advisable not to stop in your vehicle. man or woman. south africans even invented under-door-mounted anti-carjacker flamethrowers. but that's really not an issue anymore, unless you're planning to be rolling around alone at night in dilapidated parts of urban centers, and that's not advisable in ANY populous area. in other parts of the world you could get kidnapped, or robbed, or pickpocketed in that scenario. but would it be fair to advise others not to visit those places based on stereotypes of negative events that only happen to the most careless and dimwitted of tourists?

you're going to tell us that in less than two decades' time everything is peachy keen in South Africa? Really? For whom, the imperialists who continue to take advantage? It's not about tourists, it's about a failed government that still has not gotten a handle on the continuing divide between haves and have nots. And for the record, women are raped at an alarmingly high number, especially little girls because there is an old wives' tale that says sex with a virgin will cure AIDS. Don't feed us some bullshit about how for tourists everything is flowers and unicorns. Tourists may be safer than they used to be, but what about the people who live there? Not to mention that Apartheid only ended in 1991, so your family was a part of and took advantage of the system that causes the issues South Africa faces today. You really want to go there, Frozen, because we can. If anyone is being close minded and childish, it is you for not accepting the facts about your second home.

[canexplain]

i havent been here all day and you guys are still fighting .... geez ..... cr****

[bmack86]

Was your grandmother a Madam?

[kingsblend420]

calm down.

maybe people aren't listening because you haven't explained the reports we are hearing. I don't recall you trying to explain, all I've really heard from you is "that's not true, I've been there", which honestly is not a very strong arugment.

some of the things we have said have been stories from other people who have lived there, or grown up there. and while news on the internet isn't 100% factual but it's not 100% fiction either. if you'd offer some rational explanation rather than just getting upset and suggesting the whole internet is wrong, we'd be more inclined to listen.

Excellent delivery.

[kingsblend420]

frozen pilgrim ruins another thread

[frozen pilgrim]

wow.
my family have nothing to do with boers. human rights activists, actually. ida perlman "mother africa", her husband john the doctor, and their son john the journalist/humanitarian. I posted alink to his project a bit earlier.
I can't believe the ridiculous fox-worthy stuff some people believe. I'm not even going to validate what's been said with an applicable response.

edit:
and this is yet another case of "idiots only feeling obliged to read the most recent four posts" syndrome

[bmack86]

I don't understand why you post here. You get agitated so often, you never want to accept other people's arguments or views, and the only way these things end is when everyone else gives up and walks away.

Masochist?

[stinkbutt]

wow.
my family have nothing to do with boers. human rights activists, actually. ida perlman "mother africa", her husband john the doctor, and their son john the journalist/humanitarian. I posted alink to his project a bit earlier.
I can't believe the ridiculous fox-worthy stuff some people believe. I'm not even going to validate what's been said with an applicable response.

Do you ever respond with one of these?

seriously look at this paragraph (if you can call it that)

[SoulDischarge]

Shponglevania.

[Backwater]

This whole thread just seems like he's asking everyone for an ass kicking at Coachella next year.

[chairmenmeow47]

a true sign of idiocy is someone who assumes everyone else came to the conclusion they did simply because THEY are idiots, not because their experiences and knowledge might have led them to a different conclusion.

[Courtney]

Countries I don't want to visit (again):
Saudi Arabia
Yemen
Morocco

Or pretty much anywhere where being a western woman is enough to be treated like crap.

[TomAz]

a true sign of idiocy is someone who assumes everyone else came to the conclusion they did simply because THEY are idiots, not because their experiences and knowledge might have led them to a different conclusion.

what an idiotic statement.




















hahahahahaha you know that's a joke right?

[PassiveTheory]

I'd go for the 2010 World Cup. But I've heard the larger cities are very sketchy.

Somalia
Liberia
Algeria
Angola

Do not want.

Algeria isn't bad compared to Mali or any other neighbor.

[kingsblend420]

My sister went there last christmas and had a great time. Her friend, however, got dysentery or something like that.

[nationocean]

Ghana, oh wait, been there!

[kingsblend420]

Ghana, oh wait, been there!

no you're thinking of ghonnorea.