If you saw Bjork, but she was chilling with Matthew Barney, would you go say hello?

[MonsoonSeason]

I would want to but seriously, Matthew Barney is my anti-favorite person ever. If you guys aren't familiar with the dude I believe it is her boyfriend or husband, but I know he makes terrible art films. He made 5 Cremaster movies and he made one with Bjork in it, the name of which currently eludes me.

So yeah, I would maybe wait for him to go away first.

[shoegazer76]

I would've said "Welcome to Bangkok!" to Bjork of course.

[MonsoonSeason]

I don't know what that's all about but I guess I might too, I mean I live on the spur of the moment

[C DUB YA]

Why would i want my ass kicked by Bjork?

[MonsoonSeason]

I think if Bjork pounded on me I would probably alert the internets

[PotVsKtl]

What specifically is wrong with Matthew Barney?

[MonsoonSeason]

he makes really bad pretentious art movies and once I sat through half and hour of him filling an elevator shaft full of cement in the name of art

but that's just one reason to hate him

[PotVsKtl]

Have you seen the Cremaster Cycle?

[MonsoonSeason]

yes in particular cremaster 3

[C DUB YA]

Yes.

I think its ok

[PotVsKtl]

Does that mean you've seen Cremaster 3 or the 30 minute excerpt that's been released on DVD?

[MonsoonSeason]

it means I've seen all 3 1/2 hours of terrible, artless art film starting with the ridiculous wordless fairy tale at the beginning (besides the "doe-dee-doe-does") and ending after the pink hatted apprentice climbs up, then down, then halfway up the tower

if you're going to say "you should see the rest of them" I suggest you not say that, friend--I have.

[PotVsKtl]

What's a good art film?

[MonsoonSeason]

there aren't a lot of good ones, in my opinion, but Dali and Warhol never wasted a bunch of sex jelly as a primary focal point in their films

[PotVsKtl]

Ok so which Warhol movies are good art films? Can you name a title of a Dali movie that you've seen?

[mountmccabe]

it means I've seen all 3 1/2 hours of terrible, artless art film starting with the ridiculous wordless fairy tale at the beginning (besides the "doe-dee-doe-does") and ending after the pink hatted apprentice climbs up, then down, then halfway up the tower

Thanks for ruining it for the rest of us buddy

[bmack86]

That sounds right up my alley. I love cement, and elevators.

[MonsoonSeason]

mount: I didn't ruin it--there's more toward the end of the movie, past the apprentice part. I left it out just for you~ <3

as for stuff I've seen:
dali:
un chien andalusia
l'age d'or
warhol:
eat and sleep, read fuck
blow job
birth
part of eiffel
kitchen
chelsea girls

none of which are particularly good, save for parts of l'age and kitchen

[PotVsKtl]

Yeah, see, you're fucking confused. Bunuel made those films, not Dali. Also, there's no chance you've watched Sleep. Here's my take. You're full of shit.

[fasttrack]

i'd say hello to bjork as long as she wasn't with mike patton. otherwise, i might be inclined to tell him he ruined the dillinger escape plan.

[wmgaretjax]

Dali helped write both of those films Pot. and dude, if you don't think Un Chien is one of the greatest art films of all time, you are a fool.

Cremaster 3 is extraordinary, the rest of the series is hit and miss. I thought Drawing Restraint 9 (the film with Bjork) had it's moments, but there are some problems with Barney's approach. For a film that is so consumed with notions of control and precision, the art direction can be a little sloppy. The last 30 minutes are fantastic though.

I saw his exhibit at SFMOMA and the guy is famous for a reason. He has a great eye for presentation and his art normally looks beautiful. I do think he is a little to into the whole "art star" thing, but he has some good work.

I'm not sure why you are even bringing Warhol and Dali/Bunuel into the discussion, is it because those happen to be the only art films you are familiar with?

[thelastgreatman]

This is kind of an interesting formula for a question game though. "If (someone awesome) was talking with (someone horrible) would you try to get in the convo?" In fact, I might make that thread right now.

[thelastgreatman]

http://www.coachella.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6296

This could be awesome if people got really into it. You get partial credit, Monsoon.

[HowToDisappear]

I saw his exhibit at SFMOMA and the guy is famous for a reason. He has a great eye for presentation and his art normally looks beautiful. I do think he is a little to into the whole "art star" thing, but he has some good work.

While viewing the photographs at his exhibit there, my husband accidentally ran into/tripped over/kicked really hard one of his huge sculptures. Hard enough to move it. I was in a neighboring alcove watching a trio of monitors when I heard the awful, echoing, horribly heart-stopping banging and crashing and I thought OH MY GOD, ONE OF MY FAMILY HAS JUST DESTROYED MATTHEW BARNEY'S WORK. (I knew my three were the only people in that gallery at the time.)

You know what I did? I stood there for a moment, turned slowly around - just enough to see my mortified, beet red husband and my daughters doubled over in anguish, faces buried in their hands - and acted like I hadn't seen/ heard a thing and that I didn't know those people. Really.

I'm a bad mom.

It all ended well though. The horrified guards/docents determined nothing had actually been harmed (other than my husband's foot) and one of them, after a few quick sideways glances, put it back in place.

We didn't stay too much longer after that.

[wmgaretjax]

While viewing the photographs at his exhibit there, my husband accidentally ran into/tripped over/kicked really hard one of his huge sculptures. Hard enough to move it. I was in a neighboring alcove watching a trio of monitors when I heard the awful, echoing, horribly heart-stopping banging and crashing and I thought OH MY GOD, ONE OF MY FAMILY HAS JUST DESTROYED MATTHEW BARNEY'S WORK. (I knew my three were the only people in that gallery at the time.)

You know what I did? I stood there for a moment, turned slowly around - just enough to see my mortified, beet red husband and my daughters doubled over in anguish, faces buried in their hands - and acted like I hadn't seen/ heard a thing and that I didn't know those people. Really.

I'm a bad mom.

It all ended well though. The horrified guards/docents determined nothing had actually been harmed (other than my husband's foot) and one of them, after a few quick sideways glances, put it back in place.

We didn't stay too much longer after that.

you know, when I went I stepped into one of them as well. not very hard, but enough to look terribly ashamed...

I actually saw Thom Yorke and Jonny Greenwood there as well... This was right after the Berkeley shows last year.

[thelastgreatman]

Also, I don't know shit about this Matthew fellow, but if fucking ANYONE was talking with Gregg Araki, I'd stay far far away. Winston Churchill, HST's ghost, MJK, doesn't matter. Actually, scratch that, I'd knock Gregg the fuck out and take his place with a simple assertion that no man deserves to have three of the five letters of his first name be G's. Also, Nowhere is easily the single worst movie ever made.

[HowToDisappear]

you know, when I went I stepped into one of them as well. not very hard, but enough to look terribly ashamed...



So, he wasn't the only one? I feel better now.

[thelastgreatman]

I do think he is a little to into the whole "art star" thing,


http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h165/thelastgreatman/KarenO.jpg

Seeing the words "art star" instantly made me think of this. I couldn't believe it when she did that. Ever since, we've been in love. She just don't know it yet.

[wmgaretjax]

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h165/thelastgreatman/KarenO.jpg

Seeing the words "art star" instantly made me think of this. I couldn't believe it when she did that. Ever since, we've been in love. She just don't know it yet.

that is the only YYY song I like. but, fuck, I love it.

[thelastgreatman]

that is the only YYY song I like. but, fuck, I love it.

Aw, c'mon, they're quality stuff. Even if you want to ditch all their recent stuff, you gotta give it up to Bang just for the chorus. "For a fuck, son, you suck." I suspect that woman could make me cave, wonderful crazy bitch that she is. She already drove me insane last year.

[wmgaretjax]

i can take the EP, I really didn't like anything that followed that though.

crazy bitch for sure...

[SojuGorae]

If I saw Bjork I'd greet her by saying, welcome to California.

[PotVsKtl]

Dali helped write both of those films Pot. and dude, if you don't think Un Chien is one of the greatest art films of all time, you are a fool.

Who said anything disparaging about Un Chien Andalou?

I'm not sure why you are even bringing Warhol and Dali/Bunuel into the discussion, is it because those happen to be the only art films you are familiar with?

Those are his examples of good "art films" and are exactly what I expected to see. Except, transpose Dali onto Bunuel because he's got a crazy mustache and ignore the fact that what Warhol made was less about film than concept and is, in fact, interminably boring. Nobody actually watches Sleep or Eat or Empire (I'm assuming this is what he meant by "part of eiffel". It must have been incredibly confusing to watch "part of eiffel" and stare at the Empire State Building the whole time), they write and read about them.

[rage patton]

I saw the Yeah Yeah Yeahs last year in Vancouver. They sounded really good. However, the crowed sucked major ass. It was harsh. I hope the crowd was better at Coachella last year for them.
By the way, what song is that they were performing while Karen O had the mic in her mouth?

[bballarl]

Art Star.

[wmgaretjax]

no those aren't his examples of "good" art films, he even says "none of which are good, save..." (which is why I called him crazy for not liking Un Chien) Regardless, the well known "art films" he referenced have little in common with Barney's films, which are more of performative art than anything else.

And, as a side note, I've actually watched sleep (on mushrooms actually). Granted it did not get my full attention, but it's actually quite mesmerizing. I'm not a huge fan of Warhol's art to be honest (I like some of his collaboration, and the community that he facilitated). I think Blowjob is interesting, but for the most part, I agree, it's boring.

Pot, what do you think about Barney?

[PotVsKtl]

no those aren't his examples of "good" art films, he even says "none of which are good, save..."

Yeah, I see that now. I asked for examples, saw a list, and assumed it held some relevance to the conversation. That was foolish of me.

Pot, what do you think about Barney?

I've only seen bits and pieces but I can't imagine how someone could deny that at the very least he has a flair for iconography. Those bits and pieces were uniformly gorgeous. I've also read a thorough breakdown of a few Cremasters and find his whole schtick pretty compelling, what with the football, blimps, etc. The whole scale of the thing is fascinating. I have bootleg copies of all of them but haven't got around to watching them yet.

EDIT: That being said, I suspect he is at least 25% full of shit.

[goose]

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h165/thelastgreatman/KarenO.jpg

Seeing the words "art star" instantly made me think of this. I couldn't believe it when she did that. Ever since, we've been in love. She just don't know it yet.

fuck yeah dude, when she did that shit I shuddered in excitment. so hot

[mob roulette]

my roomate has a 78 olds with a christopher walken stencil on the hood and typically flowers of some kind inserted into the hole where the missing hood ornament should be. when he comes home drunk after a night on the town and parks in the middle of the street, it looks like a setup for a gregory crewdson photograph or something. all we would need is the proper lighting.

basically i just wanted to have something to add to this fine discussion of art films and their stars. please continue.

[wmgaretjax]

I've only seen bits and pieces but I can't imagine how someone could deny that at the very least he has a flair for iconography. Those bits and pieces were uniformly gorgeous. I've also read a thorough breakdown of a few Cremasters and find his whole schtick pretty compelling, what with the football, blimps, etc. The whole scale of the thing is fascinating. I have bootleg copies of all of them but haven't got around to watching them yet.

EDIT: That being said, I suspect he is at least 25% full of shit.


It is definitely a schtick. He has some other cool works (sculpture and film) as well in the Drawing Restraint series, but he definitely has an ego that contaminates his work. Maybe a little more than 25%, maybe like 35%. That said, the guy knows how to compose a totally unreal, gigantic moment.

[invisiblerobots]

Well, he looks totally approachable.
http://www.ocma.net/img/20_Matthew-Barney-Cremaster-72-.jpg

[PotVsKtl]

For the record, I expect artists to appear to be full of shit. All these attempts to drag art down to an everyman level (see the furor over Russell being mean to his actors - try watching My Best Fiend sometime or look into Orson Welles' career) are nothing more than anti-intellectual bullshit. Imagine what it must have looked like to be around at the birth of cubism or surrealism or dada or even pointillism. The simple fact is all those people were full of shit. I don't want to be inundated with timid suitvests painting watercolor renditions of Red Sox victiories, I went 500 pound Vikings wearing freshly killed lion skins, hacking at each others faces with diamond-encrusted machetes. Preferably inside the dead body of Richard Marx.

[HowToDisappear]

*applause*

[denies the day]

For the record, I expect artists to appear to be full of shit... I don't want to be inundated with timid suitvests painting watercolor renditions of Red Sox victiories, I went 500 pound Vikings wearing freshly killed lion skins, hacking at each others faces with diamond-encrusted machetes. Preferably inside the dead body of Richard Marx.

Word. Just don't be boring. With that slice of subjectivity out of the way, Barney's work is interesting because of the scale and the supposed ideas behind it, not because he may be full of himself (aren't all artists to some extent?) and blur the line between publicity stunts and "art". He gets a lot of criticism for being a weirdo just the way he and his baby mama are supposed to. Except her shit is way cooler.

[denies the day]

Well, he looks totally approachable.
http://www.ocma.net/img/20_Matthew-Barney-Cremaster-72-.jpg

:rotfl
I was at a halloween party a couple of years back with a guy dressed like this. All of the girls were afraid of him. It was cool.

[MonsoonSeason]

I've only seen bits and pieces but I can't imagine how someone could deny that at the very least he has a flair for iconography. Those bits and pieces were uniformly gorgeous. I've also read a thorough breakdown of a few Cremasters and find his whole schtick pretty compelling, what with the football, blimps, etc. The whole scale of the thing is fascinating. I have bootleg copies of all of them but haven't got around to watching them yet.

EDIT: That being said, I suspect he is at least 25% full of shit.

I would like to address me being full of shit. I took an art history through film class as a req for a film minor and thus saw a bunch of warhol and dali (sorry about not stating dual artistic credits with bunuel, I just thought that saying DALI would be enough :/) For the warhol films that he couldn't show, like sleep, he showed a bunch of slides and therefore I felt I saw the films. Honestly, I'm not a big fan of art films, mostly because I fine the lack of any semblance of narrative distasteful. However, Barney is my example of bad art because it was the only art film/piece I've seen that has totally pissed me off at entire project.

SPOILERS SRSLY AHEAD

Let me point to Cremaster 3--to be honest, that was the one that put me over the top. The other Cremasters were just not that interesting, because anybody can put a marching band in a field and have them march. I just couldn't care, no matter how much I wanted to. Anyhow, Cremaster 3 was never breathtaking or interesting to look at, save for the scene with the decaying horse. I could find no art in a man shitting his own teeth, a woman stomping potatoes, or 1/2 an hour of car crashes interspersed with matthew barney filling an elevator with cement. Nor could I see the symbolism of the masonic lodge unless he actually showed symbols from the masonic lodge. The film had to be forced through a very particular mindset, that being intirely the authorial intent of Barney. It was therefore incredibly tough for me to accept it as art, but it wasn't so hard for most of the audience as they just "didn't get it so it must be art" (actual quotes)

SPOILERS DONE

That being said, nothing Barney has done is worse than Live Freaky Die Freaky

[wmgaretjax]

I would like to address me being full of shit. I took an art history through film class as a req for a film minor and thus saw a bunch of warhol and dali (sorry about not stating dual artistic credits with bunuel, I just thought that saying DALI would be enough :/) For the warhol films that he couldn't show, like sleep, he showed a bunch of slides and therefore I felt I saw the films. Honestly, I'm not a big fan of art films, mostly because I fine the lack of any semblance of narrative distasteful. However, Barney is my example of bad art because it was the only art film/piece I've seen that has totally pissed me off at entire project.

SPOILERS SRSLY AHEAD

Let me point to Cremaster 3--to be honest, that was the one that put me over the top. The other Cremasters were just not that interesting, because anybody can put a marching band in a field and have them march. I just couldn't care, no matter how much I wanted to. Anyhow, Cremaster 3 was never breathtaking or interesting to look at, save for the scene with the decaying horse. I could find no art in a man shitting his own teeth, a woman stomping potatoes, or 1/2 an hour of car crashes interspersed with matthew barney filling an elevator with cement. Nor could I see the symbolism of the masonic lodge unless he actually showed symbols from the masonic lodge. The film had to be forced through a very particular mindset, that being intirely the authorial intent of Barney. It was therefore incredibly tough for me to accept it as art, but it wasn't so hard for most of the audience as they just "didn't get it so it must be art" (actual quotes)

SPOILERS DONE

That being said, nothing Barney has done is worse than Live Freaky Die Freaky


I think he was referring to Barney being full of shit... but I think you are full of shit now that you've responded.

You took a film class? As a part of your film minor? And they showed slides?!?! Clearly you've seen the films. If you couldn't find art in seeing Cremaster, clearly it's not there. Art isn't always about "narrative," if you try and evaluate art based on those standard, I suggest you stick to Bruckheimer films. Your art film class made you the go-to talking head who needs to wipe the shit off their mouth.

[HOTSAUCEMAN]

i saw matthew barney here in brooklyn 2 years ago when i first moved to nyc. he was hitting on some skanky greenpoint chicks. thought it was pretty funny though. here's this guy hooked up with such an amazing talent as bjork... and he's at this small bar in brooklyn hitting on some other girls.

i forget the comedian who said this but it went something like....

"show me the most beautiful woman in the world and i'll show you the man who's tired of fucking her"

[TomAz]

I saw some stills from Satyricon once. Man that's a great movie.

[wmgaretjax]

I saw some stills from Satyricon once. Man that's a great movie.

ha ha... but seriously, that IS a great movie.

[MonsoonSeason]

I think he was referring to Barney being full of shit... but I think you are full of shit now that you've responded.

You took a film class? As a part of your film minor? And they showed slides?!?! Clearly you've seen the films. If you couldn't find art in seeing Cremaster, clearly it's not there. Art isn't always about "narrative," if you try and evaluate art based on those standard, I suggest you stick to Bruckheimer films. Your art film class made you the go-to talking head who needs to wipe the shit off their mouth.

well originally potvsktl said "Here's my take. You're full of shit," which is what I was addressing here. and well I did say that for the warhol film HE COULDN'T SHOW we saw slides, which were Sleep and Fuck (Blue Movie whatever you prefer to call it). and I didn't see any art in Cremaster 3 because it's basically Barney climbing up and down stuff for 3 hours, mindless car crashes, punk rock bands, and piles of stuff; which, hey, if you find that to be art, go right ahead and art it up, dude. besides, I didn't say that it is objectively not art, I just can't find the art in it, since it appears to me just to be a random hodge-podge of things that aren't interesting that are supposed to represent the masonic lodge. reading comprehension ftl, huh?

see, it's things like this that stifle a good debate on what is and what is not ______. you decided that, "hmm, here are some words that could deride this guy, so instead of taking them in context like a sensible adult, I'll call him a mainstream Jerry Bruckheimer fan and get some laughs." Check this out, you forgot to read this part, too: I said that I enjoy my films with a narrative. to assume that I only, therefore, enjoy films that employ car chases and sexual deviancy as plot devices is a complete logical fallacy which might get you laughed out of a middle school debate team. furthermore, I can see art in many forms, from literature to comics to architecture to cinema; you're assuming that since I can't see the art in the Cremaster series, I don't know what art is in anything. how pretentious is that?

here's what you need to do, pal: next time you post replies, try actually reading the thing you're replying to before breaking out the fangs.

[TomAz]

get thicker skin.

[schoolofruckus]

Disappear, that story is HILARIOUS!

lastgreatman, do you have no love for "Mysterious Skin"?

[MonsoonSeason]

get thicker skin.

it's on back-order

[PotVsKtl]

well originally potvsktl said "Here's my take. You're full of shit," which is what I was addressing here.

All I wanted to do was gauge whether you had some functional ability to judge whether Barney made "terrible art films." As such, I was done with you on page one. Go watch Bad Boys until it's time for you to rake my beautifully manicured lawn. Peasant.

P.S. Your paycheck for this month will be in the form of a slide depicting cash money.

[J~$$$]

PotVsKtl'd.

[MonsoonSeason]

yes massa thank you massa

I hear Bad Boys hassa car chase is this true cuz I likes dem car chases

[HowToDisappear]

All I wanted to do was gauge whether you had some functional ability to judge whether Barney made "terrible art films." As such, I was done with you on page one. Go watch Bad Boys until it's time for you to rake my beautifully manicured lawn. Peasant.

P.S. Your paycheck for this month will be in the form of a slide depicting cash money.

Pot, you are in top form today. Thank you.

[wmgaretjax]

fangless replies are reserved for people who don't claim to have watched a film when all they've done is view slides. Beyond that, Pot put it best.

[omg wtf bbq]

worst. thread. evar.