#cnnfail

[coldstart]

Originally Posted by faxman75

I think this was good at first but now these updates are pointless since there is no way to verify or even know if these are legit coming from Iranians on the ground. You might as well make shit up and have people guess.

For instance regarding violence in Baharestan Square. There are witnesses that are saing it's not true, it's a tense situation on the ground there.

for instance there is this report




and now we have an update at the top of the article that says:




Just like the story with neda, everyone runs with some uncofirmed facts and by the time the story is spread across the interwebs it's been debunked. I'm starting to believe this "twitter revolution" as Fox and CNN have been so excited to talk about over and over is really just larger scale of gossip and spreading stories that are mostly uncomfirmed. Those anchors love these twitters though and much like you are excited to share them though it's basically all unsubstantiated gossip until there is anything concrete to back it up.

Everyone has a different point of view. Use your critical thinking skills to make your own best judgement.

[TomAz]

I think that's what he was doing with that post.

[coldstart]

Originally Posted by TomAz

I think that's what he was doing with that post.

Indeed, I was just affirming his actions.

It is kind of amusing to see the main-stream media <---> twitter dynamics for this whole thing. Sometimes, the news on twitter is from MSM, and vice versa. Sometimes the news on MSM is from twitter which got it from MSM.

The main twitterers that should be listened to are @persiankiwi (actually on the ground in Iran), @stopahmadi (Mousavi's supporters' feed), @iranbaan, and probably a few others that I'm not mentioning. There are also a lot of American's twitterers reporting news from Iran, which I tend to ignore.

Baharestan was definitely bad today though, as many, many people have reiterated.

[faxman75]

Exactly. So if I let your post go undisputed coldstart, it appears your information might be true, when in fact other witnesses on the ground are saying maybe it was not true. You continue to post long strings of twitters that may or may not be legit. I know you are passionate about this and find it interesting. I am a bit of a news junkie myself but I don't consider this news. There are no witnesses, no reporters on the scene to substantiate 99% of these random one sentence allegations yet you appear to be posting these as if you are breaking with news over and over again.

In fact you were pissed when I questioned the Neda story as well. We still don't know if she was a bystander or a protestor but that doesn't matter now because she has been made out to be a martyr either way but you can't take it personal every time I post something that might go against the information you have. There is information coming from different places and you keep giving the twitter side as if it's the closest thing to reporting we have and it's not because we don't even know if it's actually what people are seeing or simply things someone may have overheard while at church or the market.

[coldstart]

Originally Posted by faxman75

Exactly. So if I let your post go undisputed coldstart, it appears your information might be true, when in fact other witnesses on the ground are saying maybe it was not true. You continue to post long strings of twitters that may or may not be legit. I know you are passionate about this and find it interesting. I am a bit of a news junkie myself but I don't consider this news. There are no witnesses, no reporters on the scene to substantiate 99% of these random one sentence allegations yet you appear to be posting these as if you are breaking with news over and over again.

In fact you were pissed when I questioned the Neda story as well. We still don't know if she was a bystander or a protestor but that doesn't matter now because she has been made out to be a martyr either way but you can't take it personal every time I post something that might go against the information you have. There is information coming from different places and you keep giving the twitter side as if it's the closest thing to reporting we have and it's not because we don't even know if it's actually what people are seeing or simply things someone may have overheard while at church or the market.

You aren't making any better suggestions as to where to glean information from.

Any network news right now is just giving you a feed of the tweets, just the same. I don't have cable, so fortunately, I don't have to deal with that. Twitter really is the closest thing that we have. You can't get much closer than eyewitness, on the ground, reports.

I realize that you don't trust the integrity of either the twitterers themselves, or perhaps my judgement in choosing the ones to follow, but I can tell you that I'm pretty paranoid who I'm listening to and who I'm not. I know who is in Iran for sure, and those are the tweets that I deem most relevant.

And as always, if there is a consensus that all the tweets I'm posting are irrelevant, I'll be happy to call it quits.

[JebusLives]

If all we have to go on is twitter, then that's what i'll pay attention to. Usually all we have is the mainstream media, and they are often completely fabricated stories as well.

faxman keeps implying that coldstart is spreading misinformation. Most of us are smart enough to read this thread critically, and realize that coldstart is not responsible for the veracity of these tweets.

[faxman75]

Originally Posted by coldstart

You can't get much closer than eyewitness, on the ground, reports.

You certainly cannot confirm that's where all those tweets come from.

I know who is in Iran for sure, and those are the tweets that I deem most relevant.

How exactly can you confirm this? Do you have personal friends on the ground texting you because if you do then you should be telling us that and it would sure give a whole lot more credibility than the mass tweets that you are posting that CNN and Fox also post that everyone and their mother already knows about and can easily be all bullshit at this point.

And as always, if there is a consensus that all the tweets I'm posting are irrelevant, I'll be happy to call it quits.

I don't have a problem with what anyone posts. I'm just going to continue to post and challenge and i'm not going to ask for a consensus on it either. It just makes sense to not ignore the likliehood that some of this stuff is probably teenagers wanting to be newsmakers.

[PotVsKtl]

Teenagers probably have better things to worry about than being newsmakers right now.



Regardless, just go track the Twitter updates yourself.

[faxman75]

Originally Posted by JebusLives

If all we have to go on is twitter, then that's what i'll pay attention to. Usually all we have is the mainstream media, and they are often completely fabricated stories as well.

faxman keeps implying that coldstart is spreading misinformation. Most of us are smart enough to read this thread critically, and realize that coldstart is not responsible for the veracity of these tweets.

No, faxman is critical of each and every copy and paste of tweets being posted, including the ones I posted and also challenged. Most may be smart enough to read it critically but some obviously aren't as we learned from the Neda discussion and what her name actually means and how it's relevant to who she was and how she died. I believe someone said her name meant "voice" and that was poetic. Neda means more than voice and I still don't know what's poetic about a bystander being murdered by the government if she wasn't even part of the movement or protest.

coldstart can also be more critical and maybe not post every single tweet that he comes across or since we know of the persia site he can just post the link but I guess some folks would be too lazy to click the link and follow on their own?

[coldstart]

Originally Posted by faxman75

No, faxman is critical of each and every copy and paste of tweets being posted, including the ones I posted and also challenged. Most may be smart enough to read it critically but some obviously aren't as we learned from the Neda discussion and what her name actually means and how it's relevant to who she was and how she died. I believe someone said her name meant "voice" and that was poetic. Neda means more than voice and I still don't know what's poetic about a bystander being murdered by the government if she wasn't even part of the movement or protest.

coldstart can also be more critical and maybe not post every single tweet that he comes across or since we know of the persia site he can just post the link but I guess some folks would be too lazy to click the link and follow on their own?

If I posted every tweet I was getting, we'd be up in the 1000s/hour range. I'm filtering it to at least the most interesting ones, if not the most valid. Sure, there is lots of misinformation, but it's the best we have at this time. If it wasn't for twitter, we would be completely in the dark due to the intense media blackout. Anyway, carry on.

[coldstart]

And for the record, Associated Press and CNN have both confirmed with their own eyewitnesses that the clash was bad today.

[coldstart]

@MajoratWH: Gibbs: hot dog diplomacy ended. All 4th of July invites to Iranians rescinded.

[faxman75]

Originally Posted by coldstart

And for the record, Associated Press and CNN have both confirmed with their own eyewitnesses that the clash was bad today.

CNN at least claims to have witnesses they have spoken too. To me that's closer to reporting than random tweets from god knows who and god knows where.

Is a story like this any more reliable than random tweets copied and pasted in your opinion? To me it's a world of difference. It's more than a random phrase, it gives details of where it came from and who said it.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/...ion/index.html

[faxman75]

Originally Posted by coldstart

@MajoratWH: Gibbs: hot dog diplomacy ended. All 4th of July invites to Iranians rescinded.

What does that one mean? Is this an insider tweet? Is that supposed to be a funny?

[coldstart]

Originally Posted by faxman75

What does that one mean? Is this an insider tweet? Is that supposed to be a funny?

There was a big controversy because the US had invited some Iranians to a 4th of July fest at the Whitehouse or something. Apparently, they retracted the invites.

[faxman75]

Ha, it's easy to retract an invite when those invited never accepted to begin with.

[coldstart]

Originally Posted by faxman75

CNN at least claims to have witnesses they have spoken too. To me that's closer to reporting than random tweets from god knows who and god knows where.

Is a story like this any more reliable than random tweets copied and pasted in your opinion? To me it's a world of difference. It's more than a random phrase, it gives details of where it came from and who said it.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/...ion/index.html

There is no black and white answer to this. I trust a few of the people that I am following on twitter, if nothing else, because MSM has confirmed the same things later that I've seen them saying. Plus, with some of the photos/videos coming out of there, it would be very difficult to fake. It's a best judgement thing.

I do not trust CNN or and MSM more than twitter in this instance (the Iran elections) due to the fact that the MSM is relying so heavily on twitter that to me, I'd rather see the original tweets from the people on the ground that they are getting their info from.

[coldstart]

Speaking of MSM being shoddy:

@allahpundit: NYT's Iran "expert" not so expert: http://is.gd/1coyK

[faxman75]

Interesting to me that story had specifics and details from eye witnesses where the tweets have a phrase and that's it. Don't get me wrong, i'm skeptical of the main stream media as well but in this case i'll choose them over tweets. Just a difference of opinion I suppose.

What do you think is happening with the movement? It appears the government is winning. Far less protestors. The ones that show up are getting beat up and pushed back. Are they waiting to take direction from the opposition? Any word on how the flooding of the markets went? Did that even happen?

[coldstart]

Originally Posted by faxman75

Interesting to me that story had specifics and details from eye witnesses where the tweets have a phrase and that's it. Don't get me wrong, i'm skeptical of the main stream media as well but in this case i'll choose them over tweets. Just a difference of opinion I suppose.

What do you think is happening with the movement? It appears the government is winning. Far less protestors. The ones that show up are getting beat up and pushed back. Are they waiting to take direction from the opposition? Any word on how the flooding of the markets went? Did that even happen?

The government has definitely started to try and crackdown using overwhelming force. There haven't been any scheduled rallies the last couple of days though, that's why to the outside things have seemed "quiet". Due to the crackdown, there has also been less cell/internet access for the folks on the ground and less information has been getting out.

Tomorrow is a scheduled rally, we'll see how that goes. (and I've had no word on the market flooding, everyone was primariy concerned with what was going on at Baharestan Square today)

[faxman75]

I find this to be a pretty good compilation of today and previous days activity

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/blo...23/iran-crisis

They have actually compiled a good list of names of reporters who are missing too. In fact I would say the reporting coming from the Guardian has been the best by far over hte past week.

They update it very often.

[hawkingvsreeve]

veracity of tweets

Band name.

[JebusLives]

So did the national strike happen or not?

[coldstart]

Have you seen "The Green Brief"? It's an "underground zine" put together every night to summarize the event of the day, gathered from "reliable tweets" and he intentionally doesn't pay attention to any MSM:

Here's yesterdays issue: http://iran.whyweprotest.net/news-cu...7-niteowl.html

[coldstart]

Originally Posted by JebusLives

So did the national strike happen or not?

Not completely yet. Last I heard about it was 30-40% of the workforce was striking. (that was yesterday)

[faxman75]

Originally Posted by JebusLives

So did the national strike happen or not?

It looks like from the link I posted that 30% will participate but I forget when it's supposed to take place or maybe it started today with some places.

[coldstart]

@iran88: Photos of full strike in Saqqez bazaar (Kurdistan province) http://tinyurl.com/kvsoeh #iranelection #gr88 #neda

[coldstart]

Rafsanjani has enough support to remove Khamenei: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/20...n-protests.htm

An additional report of the horrible clash today (the photo is old, disregard that): http://threatswatch.org/rapidrecon/2...ror-in-tehran/

[coldstart]

The Green Brief #8: http://iran.whyweprotest.net/news-cu...brief-8-a.html

[coldstart]

No posts today, does anyone even care about this anymore? Oh, that's right, Michael Jackson died. :P

@IranRiggedElect: Now this is hilarious. http://bit.ly/5fw3I 20 ballot boxes all have either 65 or 211 votes. Can copy paste get more blatant? #iranelection

@IranRiggedElect: New video apparently from Baharestan on June 24th: http://bit.ly/TWjrK #IranElection #Neda